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*Pathfinder & Starfinder
Do animated undead add to EL?
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<blockquote data-quote="moritheil" data-source="post: 3094189" data-attributes="member: 30610"><p>Unless you're using the rule in the Book of Traps, Challenges, and Puzzles, which specifically states that the EL of an encounter does not increase simply because the enemies have favorable positions - instead one should give 15-25% more XP.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I disagree that the combat ability of the familiar has anything to do with it. The familiar is part of the package because it is one of the wizard's class features.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I would disagree. If the NPC took Leadership, he has spent a feat slot and the resulting cohort is part of his resources. If the NPC did not have Leadership or a similar feat or class feature, and the cohort is there only because of the storyline or other DM intervention, then that is different.</p><p></p><p>The main question to ask yourself is - is the NPC giving up anything to get this? With animate undead, the NPC is paying for spell components and spending time to animate the undead. I personally disregard how efficient that use of resources is as long as resources are legitimately spent. (I do take great pains, however, to reserve the most efficient uses of resources for the most intelligent and/or wisest BBEGs.)</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>A bard who uses a high Diplomacy check has not expended any resources. I would give XP for the friends. One who charms a low-level fighter, though, has used daily spell slots to do so, and thus I would give no XP; it is simply an optimal use of the bard's resources.</p><p></p><p>The kobolds and traps are probably not going to be one encounter, but if they were somehow all in the same encounter, I would not give any additional XP - provided that the cost of the traps was subtracted from the kobolds' resources, and the skill points were allocated accordingly. I frankly don't think it's possible to do this for a typical low-level kobold encounter, as traps are pretty expensive. Since the trap cost for a typical low-level kobold encounter does not come out of kobold resources, it is right to treat them as separate obstacles. And if you're going to encounter the traps and the kobolds separately, it becomes a moot point, as they are separate encounters.</p><p></p><p>Let me point something out - many spells, such as Celestial Brilliance and Dominate Monster, have durations longer than one day. I allow the players to benefit from such spells for multiple days even though using the results of those spells in encounters does not lower their spell resources for that particular day. Why would I not allow NPCs to do the same? This is the reason the "cast this day" or "cast right now" line of thought strikes me as false.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="moritheil, post: 3094189, member: 30610"] Unless you're using the rule in the Book of Traps, Challenges, and Puzzles, which specifically states that the EL of an encounter does not increase simply because the enemies have favorable positions - instead one should give 15-25% more XP. I disagree that the combat ability of the familiar has anything to do with it. The familiar is part of the package because it is one of the wizard's class features. I would disagree. If the NPC took Leadership, he has spent a feat slot and the resulting cohort is part of his resources. If the NPC did not have Leadership or a similar feat or class feature, and the cohort is there only because of the storyline or other DM intervention, then that is different. The main question to ask yourself is - is the NPC giving up anything to get this? With animate undead, the NPC is paying for spell components and spending time to animate the undead. I personally disregard how efficient that use of resources is as long as resources are legitimately spent. (I do take great pains, however, to reserve the most efficient uses of resources for the most intelligent and/or wisest BBEGs.) A bard who uses a high Diplomacy check has not expended any resources. I would give XP for the friends. One who charms a low-level fighter, though, has used daily spell slots to do so, and thus I would give no XP; it is simply an optimal use of the bard's resources. The kobolds and traps are probably not going to be one encounter, but if they were somehow all in the same encounter, I would not give any additional XP - provided that the cost of the traps was subtracted from the kobolds' resources, and the skill points were allocated accordingly. I frankly don't think it's possible to do this for a typical low-level kobold encounter, as traps are pretty expensive. Since the trap cost for a typical low-level kobold encounter does not come out of kobold resources, it is right to treat them as separate obstacles. And if you're going to encounter the traps and the kobolds separately, it becomes a moot point, as they are separate encounters. Let me point something out - many spells, such as Celestial Brilliance and Dominate Monster, have durations longer than one day. I allow the players to benefit from such spells for multiple days even though using the results of those spells in encounters does not lower their spell resources for that particular day. Why would I not allow NPCs to do the same? This is the reason the "cast this day" or "cast right now" line of thought strikes me as false. [/QUOTE]
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Do animated undead add to EL?
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