Upgrade your account to a Community Supporter account and remove most of the site ads.

Reply to thread

Message: <blockquote data-quote="Arrowhawk" data-source="post: 5701633" data-attributes="member: 6679551">Right.  The question is whether anyone would know their specific class level and conceptualize it as such.  It isn't a question of people perceiving a difference in power ability.  The problem with football is that it is not analogus to being a Fighter.  The difference between Michael Vick and Tom Brady would be in skill ranks or natural modfiers, not levels.  The closest thing you'd have to levels is years in the NFL and everyone knows that exactly don't they?  But in D&D, you "level-up" and in some cases you get spell like abilities.  Those abilities are binary.  One day you don't have them...one dead hobgoblin later, you have them.  Nothing in real life works like that because no one in real life gains spell-like or even special abilities as a result of "experience." To speak more specifically, the other DM would agree that some organizations might have levels that were inforced by membership in that organization.  Yet somehow he is unwilling to acknowledge that those organizaitons exist on any general level and more specifically in our campaign. For example, he recognizes that amateur tennis has levels in real life, but he argues that is a nation wide standard and our campaign doesn't have anything like that...for any class..specifically Wizard. I'm going to write a more elaborate response to Jimlock because he more closely represents the mentality of our DM...though not perfectly. FYI, there is no debate about something like Skill ranks or modifiers, those are clearly metagame.  A caster would be able to peg themselves to the EXACT level by virture of the fact that the cost of making scrolls is level dependent.  Not only that, but spell durations are level dependent.  Read Jack Simth's post about using Detect Magic as a measure of arcane ability.  This would lead to exact level determination.  Yes and no.  Unlike Jimlock, he feels that nobody in-game knows level or determines it, it's not just a matter of abstraction.  He also expects the player to infer level and provides no OOC information on what the true level is.  In and of itself, this is not some major issue one way or the other, but the problem is that when dealing with spells and spell casters, pretending that exact level is uknown on any level to the characters, creates a lot of problems for the players.    So why go through this rigamoroll?  His argument is immersion, but that cuts both ways.  If one's perception that casters knowing level is a part of D&D, then your breaking someone else's immersion on top of making it an ordeal to get a CLW cast by a 5th level cleric.</blockquote>

Verification