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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Chaosmancer" data-source="post: 6777409" data-attributes="member: 6801228">Both of these have similar responses, so I'll try and address everything at once.Class is a game construct, however, every person who has that class at the same level shares some of the same abilities and those abilities all have end results that are the same.Let's take a paladin's divine smite. Multiple different fluff reasons it might exist, but the end result of expending a magical resource to deal radiant damage with a melee weapon attack is the exact same. Now, maybe Joe the farmer can't tell you that, but Orcus or Demogorgon probably could recognize all paladins as being the same thing, because they've lived for centuries and seen it repeatedly. Could they say "Ah, that is the paladin's Divine Smite ability?" no, probably not, but they could easily say "Ah, he's like those other guys I've fought, bet he has some magic auras to make it harder to magic him to and can heal with a touch" (representing the charisma buff to saving throws all paladins give and lay on hands). This is true, no matter how it is fluffed they have the same observable end results on the world. Because of this they are concrete things, they exist, they have effects. I don't care if other things have similar effects, after all like it was said casting fireball does not mean wizard, it could mean eldritch knight, sorcerer, or warlock as well. But, if they wear armor, cast fireball, and can summon their weapon to their hand from a different room, well that's an eldritch knight no matter what name they have, those are things that these type of people are capable of doing. As to the moonblade, obviously magical items are obviously magical items so people would make assumptions based on the sword not the wielder. However, if you saw a guy do the same thing with a club that another guy needed a fancy magic sword to do, you'd be able to tell the difference would you not?  You say that NPC's do not ever get class levels, but if they did would they not all have the same abilities? Isn't the fact that there is a difference in power and ability between a 17th level wizard and an "archmage" from the MM mean that class and level have an observable effect on the game world? Could I tell the difference between the barbarians rage resistance and have double hp? Most likely, because rage also comes with increased damage, increased strength (shown thru advantage), and the need to stay in combat to keep these abilities. It is an entirely different state, the barbarian now looks and acts differently than he once did. And whether they are drunk on blood or divine fervor these results are the same.I remember one person on this thread that when his character who is a cleric mechanically is asked if he is a cleric he says no, because he identifies as an archaeologists. But the fact that you can draw parallels between the clerics and this character means that there is something concretely similar about them.I'm not saying that just anyone can walk up and ID who your character is and what they do, I'm not saying you can't have crazy fluff explaining it all in a completely different context than what the book states, I'm saying that classes are concretely real in the world because they represent what your character does in a consistent manner, a+b = c and every time a and b are the same number they will equal c. This isn't about being able to quote the PHB in the game world, this is recognizing that things in the PHB have real effects in the game world and are more than just concepts in our mind, otherwise they would not be as consistent within the game world.I can say Acolyte is a background metagame concept, no creature in the world knows that Acolytes get the Shelter Faithful ability nor do they know about the proficiency rules, however, they understand there is a connection behind all these people that serve churches and have a certain set of specialized knowledge. Metagame and concrete game reality at the same time.</blockquote>

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