Upgrade your account to a Community Supporter account and remove most of the site ads.

Reply to thread

Message: <blockquote data-quote="Chaosmancer" data-source="post: 6778039" data-attributes="member: 6801228">How can they know it wasn't a spell? Because a spell wasn't cast. I don't think there is a single spell in the game that doesn't at the very least have a verbal component. And before we get into what exactly they are saying and if your paladin always declares "For Helm" before activating Divine Smite and how that could be construed as the verbal component for a spell, again I'll say that for the paladin example I was talking about Orcus. An immortal being who has fought many, many paladins as well as clerics. I think he might even have truesight (will need to confirm) which could allow him to see enough to know the difference between a spell and a magical ability. Also, he would know that while he normally can effect people with his spells, he historically has a harder time of it when Paladins are around, law of averages plays in here by extension of my example being that you are fighting a Demon Lord.But hey, let's say it isn't Orcus, lets say it is Asmosdeus instead, who in some versions is a minor god and probably even older and has fought even more paladins, clerics, angels and ect. Does that change anything? The point is that if it is real, concrete, then beings can observe it. Even if it is only those beings whom are so massively powerful that they are end game fights, if they can make these connections and observations then classes are real and concrete. If in the Forgotten Realms AO is the only one who could tell the difference between a Paladin and a War Cleric, that means there is still a difference and it has a real impact in the game world.Damage is observable through more than effect. Rolling a 1 on a swing of the greataxe would have to be a different swing than rolling a 12. A fireball that does 40 damage is different than one that does 10. However, none of that matters. When I brought up the Fireball it was in direct reference to the Evoker Wizard's ability to create pockets of safe space within the fireball, where targets he/she chose were not effected. No matter how you flavor the creation of those pockets, they exist and have the same effect, and are also only possible to be created by Evoker Wizards.And bringing up the fact that using a magical blade designed to do that same "fancy thing" however you would do that would be indistinguishable from just being able to use it with any weapon at any time meant sidestepping a point. A point which actually, I don't think I ever made. The increased Crit range was not something I brought up in the first place, since crits and their increasing or decreasing is hard to conceptualizeYeah, critical hits are based on luck and a bad example. Does not invalidate the other parts of the discussion, because even though they are difficult to observe, all Champions do get crits more often than normal people, so it still has to have some meaningful impact on the game world Does he turn into a bear by casting a spell? Or does it just happen? Can he also turn into an Elemental? Is he capable of becoming a dragon? There is a difference between casting Polymorph and using Wildshape, even if it is just the use of the bonus action instead of an action and the fact that a wizard, sorcerer and bard all approach magic differently than a druid.That's the other part of the argument by the way. It isn't just each individual ability. It is the fact that these abilities tie into other ablities. If you can do one thing you can most likely do this other thing or you will in the future. The entirety of my point is that class effects the game world. Since it effects the game world it is real. Since it is real, as per my understanding of the term, they are concrete. It is more than fluff, it is real in some way, shape or form</blockquote>

Verification