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Message: <blockquote data-quote="empireofchaos" data-source="post: 6780689" data-attributes="member: 6800918">This is precisely the point - both Jordan and your friend are athletes, and recognize themselves as such. Quite possibly, your friend looks up to Jordan as an archetypal athlete (and for that reason, buys his shoes). And lots of people could train your friend, but you'd have to be a high-class athlete to train Jordan, as one would expect of a high-level member of a class.The fact that a man-at-arms and a high level fighter may share an identity doesn't really negate class as reality. Einstein and an undergrad in physics do, too - Einstein became a classed character, and the undergrad ultimately got a job flipping burgers, but that doesn't negate the existence of a solidarity among classed characters that may also include those who did not succeed in rising up above basic trainees.    Again, it's not necessarily about what they say out loud when they are going around, or clear labels, it's about what they think and feel. It may be looser and more structured in the case of individual classes - I posted a <a href="http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?472788-Do-Classes-Have-Concrete-Meaning-In-Your-Game/page33&p=6765416#post6765416" target="_blank">long list </a>earlier about various shapes that class can take under different circumstances.</blockquote>