Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Next
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
Twitch
YouTube
Facebook (EN Publishing)
Facebook (EN World)
Twitter
Instagram
TikTok
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
The
VOIDRUNNER'S CODEX
is coming! Explore new worlds, fight oppressive empires, fend off fearsome aliens, and wield deadly psionics with this comprehensive boxed set expansion for 5E and A5E!
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Do Classes Have Concrete Meaning In Your Game?
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Remathilis" data-source="post: 6792881" data-attributes="member: 7635"><p>I think the problem lies in fact that there is no ability that is demonstrably unique to one class and one class alone. Either an ability cannot be quantified measurably (aka: only fighters get action surge and people in-world can point out action surges), the ability is shared among other classes (aka fireball on a dozen spell lists) or you can just make an NPC with that class ability and no levels in any "class". (Personally, I find the last one cheating, tbh). Ergo, you cannot scientifically measure a class by its class abilities: even if you put Bob, a "paladin" in a room and say "smite that orc" and he does, you can't say use it as proof of paladinhood existing because a.) We'd have to trust the action he did was "smiting" and not something else, like a crit or spell b.) We'd have to assume Bob actually had levels in Paladin and not some other class that grants Smite as an action and c.) Bob wasn't just a totally custom NPC with 5 HD and Smite as a Action but has nothing else to do with paladins. </p><p></p><p>Of course, the latter DOES raise the question of "If Bob is a totally unique NPC who just somehow gained/learned the Smite ability without taking any levels of Paladin, why can't my PC do the same thing?" Or "If Joe the Archmage is using a spellbook to cast rituals but isn't a wizard, can Joe teach my Sorcerer how to do that?" That can have one of two effects: it removes ALL fluff from classes (sure, you can learn smite, but you need to take a level from the class commonly called a Paladin except you're not actually becoming a paladin, its just the name of the metagame concept that grants smite.) or it begs for a more granular method of divvying up powers (taking class abilities with feats, swapping class features from one class with another, using talent/feat trees and large generic classes, or buying abilities ala cart without need of classes). Or there's options three: (Bob learned it because he's an NPC and not bound to the laws and fluff that govern PCs, but you are forced into one of 12 predetermined powersets with a few choice points).</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Remathilis, post: 6792881, member: 7635"] I think the problem lies in fact that there is no ability that is demonstrably unique to one class and one class alone. Either an ability cannot be quantified measurably (aka: only fighters get action surge and people in-world can point out action surges), the ability is shared among other classes (aka fireball on a dozen spell lists) or you can just make an NPC with that class ability and no levels in any "class". (Personally, I find the last one cheating, tbh). Ergo, you cannot scientifically measure a class by its class abilities: even if you put Bob, a "paladin" in a room and say "smite that orc" and he does, you can't say use it as proof of paladinhood existing because a.) We'd have to trust the action he did was "smiting" and not something else, like a crit or spell b.) We'd have to assume Bob actually had levels in Paladin and not some other class that grants Smite as an action and c.) Bob wasn't just a totally custom NPC with 5 HD and Smite as a Action but has nothing else to do with paladins. Of course, the latter DOES raise the question of "If Bob is a totally unique NPC who just somehow gained/learned the Smite ability without taking any levels of Paladin, why can't my PC do the same thing?" Or "If Joe the Archmage is using a spellbook to cast rituals but isn't a wizard, can Joe teach my Sorcerer how to do that?" That can have one of two effects: it removes ALL fluff from classes (sure, you can learn smite, but you need to take a level from the class commonly called a Paladin except you're not actually becoming a paladin, its just the name of the metagame concept that grants smite.) or it begs for a more granular method of divvying up powers (taking class abilities with feats, swapping class features from one class with another, using talent/feat trees and large generic classes, or buying abilities ala cart without need of classes). Or there's options three: (Bob learned it because he's an NPC and not bound to the laws and fluff that govern PCs, but you are forced into one of 12 predetermined powersets with a few choice points). [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Do Classes Have Concrete Meaning In Your Game?
Top