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<blockquote data-quote="takasi" data-source="post: 4447388" data-attributes="member: 20194">I was the DM in this same scenario and was rushed for time (RPGA game).&nbsp; I made a call, but now I have time to look this up.PHB 278:&quot;Overlapping durations:&nbsp; If a target is affected by multiple powers that have the same effect but end at different times, the effect with the most time remaining applies.&quot;Specific example:&nbsp; Iron Cobra hits target A with 'Poison the Mind' and target A is dazed and slowed (save ends both).Clay Scout hits target A with 'Mind Touch'.&nbsp; The target is dazed (save ends).Dazed is the same effect and the same duration so it does not apply.That's RAW IMO.&nbsp; For RAI, I think 3.5 durations should be turned to.&nbsp; 'Saves' in 4E are patterned after durations from 3.5.&nbsp; Similar scenario in 3.5:A fifth level cleric casts hold person and target A fails its 'save' (in 4E this is a defense).&nbsp; Target A is paralyzed and the duration (measured by 'saves' in 4E) is 5 rounds.A 3rd level cleric casts ghoul touch on target A and it fails its 'save'.&nbsp; The duration is rolled (1d6+2) and a 4 is the result. The condition can be ignored entirely.A power might create two conditions with the same 'duration' (number of saves it takes to end them) but in this example we are only comparing two conditions.Now what happens if...Iron Cobra hits target A with 'Poison the Mind' and target A is dazed and slowed (until the end of its next turn).Clay Scout hits target A with 'Mind Touch'.&nbsp; The target is dazed (save ends).In this case the question, IMO, becomes:&nbsp; Which effect lasts longer?&nbsp; IMO, due to the chronological order of the previous three durations on 278, and 'save ends' being the final forth duration, I assume that 'save ends' is the longest duration.&nbsp; Even though it has the potential to be as short as 'until the end of its next turn' if you make the first save, since you don't know at the beginning it becomes the longest duration.Taking this into account, in the last example target A is slowed until the end of its next turn and dazed (save ends).</blockquote>

[QUOTE="takasi, post: 4447388, member: 20194"] I was the DM in this same scenario and was rushed for time (RPGA game). I made a call, but now I have time to look this up. PHB 278: "Overlapping durations: If a target is affected by multiple powers that have the same effect but end at different times, the effect with the most time remaining applies." Specific example: Iron Cobra hits target A with 'Poison the Mind' and target A is dazed and slowed (save ends both). Clay Scout hits target A with 'Mind Touch'. The target is dazed (save ends). Dazed is the same effect and the same duration so it does not apply. That's RAW IMO. For RAI, I think 3.5 durations should be turned to. 'Saves' in 4E are patterned after durations from 3.5. Similar scenario in 3.5: A fifth level cleric casts hold person and target A fails its 'save' (in 4E this is a defense). Target A is paralyzed and the duration (measured by 'saves' in 4E) is 5 rounds. A 3rd level cleric casts ghoul touch on target A and it fails its 'save'. The duration is rolled (1d6+2) and a 4 is the result. The condition can be ignored entirely. A power might create two conditions with the same 'duration' (number of saves it takes to end them) but in this example we are only comparing two conditions. Now what happens if... Iron Cobra hits target A with 'Poison the Mind' and target A is dazed and slowed (until the end of its next turn). Clay Scout hits target A with 'Mind Touch'. The target is dazed (save ends). In this case the question, IMO, becomes: Which effect lasts longer? IMO, due to the chronological order of the previous three durations on 278, and 'save ends' being the final forth duration, I assume that 'save ends' is the longest duration. Even though it has the potential to be as short as 'until the end of its next turn' if you make the first save, since you don't know at the beginning it becomes the longest duration. Taking this into account, in the last example target A is slowed until the end of its next turn and dazed (save ends). [/QUOTE]

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