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<blockquote data-quote="evilbob" data-source="post: 6555803" data-attributes="member: 9789">Ok, this is fair; if &quot;by the math&quot; they are actually pretty close, then I'm just missing the bigger picture, and these are closer than I'd thought.It seems like in actual play, though, the Cave Bear will likely drop someone in one round - which means the PCs will have a much tougher time killing the bear, since they have to fight with 1/2 capacity for that round, assuming 4 PCs (one down, one helper).&nbsp; So 6.75 PC attacks to kill the bear on average, but assuming every round you are fighting with only 1/2 your PCs, that's ~3.4 rounds, not 1.35.&nbsp; Which means the bear does 70 damage - which is enough to down 4 PCs.&nbsp; Strict averages are useful, but if the damage is enough to start removing PCs from play for a round, then the numbers start to tip quickly against you.Same thing with the Cube:&nbsp; anyone pulling out some dying person is not only taking 10 damage, they are also not attacking the Cube.&nbsp; And if they already got hit once that round, they can't help anyway, or they would drop themselves.&nbsp; So it feels like these are much worse than the averages would lead you to believe.Maybe I just happened to find the two ends of the spectrum - Grick vs. Cube - but they are really wide apart.&nbsp; I'd easily put the Cube up against some CR 3 monsters - like the Owlbear, which is really just a slightly upgraded cave bear.&nbsp; The Cube is still far more deadly than the Owlbear.Or maybe the problem is that the Gelatinous Cube is supposed to be a CR 4 monster.&nbsp; <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile&nbsp; &nbsp; :)"&nbsp; data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /></blockquote>

[QUOTE="evilbob, post: 6555803, member: 9789"] Ok, this is fair; if "by the math" they are actually pretty close, then I'm just missing the bigger picture, and these are closer than I'd thought. It seems like in actual play, though, the Cave Bear will likely drop someone in one round - which means the PCs will have a much tougher time killing the bear, since they have to fight with 1/2 capacity for that round, assuming 4 PCs (one down, one helper). So 6.75 PC attacks to kill the bear on average, but assuming every round you are fighting with only 1/2 your PCs, that's ~3.4 rounds, not 1.35. Which means the bear does 70 damage - which is enough to down 4 PCs. Strict averages are useful, but if the damage is enough to start removing PCs from play for a round, then the numbers start to tip quickly against you. Same thing with the Cube: anyone pulling out some dying person is not only taking 10 damage, they are also not attacking the Cube. And if they already got hit once that round, they can't help anyway, or they would drop themselves. So it feels like these are much worse than the averages would lead you to believe. Maybe I just happened to find the two ends of the spectrum - Grick vs. Cube - but they are really wide apart. I'd easily put the Cube up against some CR 3 monsters - like the Owlbear, which is really just a slightly upgraded cave bear. The Cube is still far more deadly than the Owlbear. Or maybe the problem is that the Gelatinous Cube is supposed to be a CR 4 monster. :) [/QUOTE]

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