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General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
do CRs seem a bit arbitrary?
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<blockquote data-quote="EzekielRaiden" data-source="post: 6557743" data-attributes="member: 6790260"><p>My point was not that it works absolutely perfectly for all possible styles of play. I was responding to someone who asserted that the nature of D&D as a game made it <em>utterly impossible</em> to have a system with any "consistency." 4e proves it is at least <em>possible</em> to have a consistent system.</p><p></p><p>I'd also argue that there is a difference between "variation of options," which I at least believe 4e had in spades, and "unpredictability of outcome," which I completely agree 4e actively fought against. If you want a system that will occasionally surprise you, the DM, as to how the encounter should work? You don't want 4e's budget system. You want something that is precisely like 5e's CR--that is, unreliable. It does not <em>reliably</em> tell you the encounter strength; the strength it tells you may be spot on, or may be radically different, and there's little way to know for sure which it will be in any given situation. It gives you a rough estimate, which may or may not actually pan out. Admittedly, the designers took at least some effort to consider important secondary effects, e.g. relative numbers and who has the more favorable terrain, I just don't feel it's enough.</p><p></p><p>Or, another way to put it: It is easy to ignore a reliable system if you want to be surprised. It is hard to achieve reliable results by tweaking an unreliable system.</p><p></p><p>Note, though, that "unreliable" should not be taken to mean <em>totally useless.</em> The CR system is not at all useless. It's just very squishy, and sensitive to more factors than I think it <em>has</em> to be sensitive to.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="EzekielRaiden, post: 6557743, member: 6790260"] My point was not that it works absolutely perfectly for all possible styles of play. I was responding to someone who asserted that the nature of D&D as a game made it [I]utterly impossible[/I] to have a system with any "consistency." 4e proves it is at least [I]possible[/I] to have a consistent system. I'd also argue that there is a difference between "variation of options," which I at least believe 4e had in spades, and "unpredictability of outcome," which I completely agree 4e actively fought against. If you want a system that will occasionally surprise you, the DM, as to how the encounter should work? You don't want 4e's budget system. You want something that is precisely like 5e's CR--that is, unreliable. It does not [I]reliably[/I] tell you the encounter strength; the strength it tells you may be spot on, or may be radically different, and there's little way to know for sure which it will be in any given situation. It gives you a rough estimate, which may or may not actually pan out. Admittedly, the designers took at least some effort to consider important secondary effects, e.g. relative numbers and who has the more favorable terrain, I just don't feel it's enough. Or, another way to put it: It is easy to ignore a reliable system if you want to be surprised. It is hard to achieve reliable results by tweaking an unreliable system. Note, though, that "unreliable" should not be taken to mean [I]totally useless.[/I] The CR system is not at all useless. It's just very squishy, and sensitive to more factors than I think it [I]has[/I] to be sensitive to. [/QUOTE]
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do CRs seem a bit arbitrary?
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