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*Pathfinder & Starfinder
Do Diviners make sense as PCs?
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<blockquote data-quote="KarinsDad" data-source="post: 3153349" data-attributes="member: 2011"><p>Precisely. The enemy who really knows the PCs and their tactics should be the rare exception, not the rule. Otherwise, the PCs should often lose as opposed to win and that does not make for a very lengthy duration game with the same PCs.</p><p></p><p>When I read that PC tactics will eventually become known, I find the comment suspect.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Accurate and solid information is often hard to come by and even really well informed NPCs can make huge errors.</p><p></p><p>For example, I recently ran a combat where the NPCs were going to ambush the PCs. They knew the PCs were going to attack and had an extensive counterattack prepared, but even with previously cast Divination type spells, they did not know exactly when the PCs were going to attack. So, they prepared accordingly.</p><p></p><p>The PCs, on the other hand, had cast a Divination spell (first time ever) and got a clue that "The best way to avoid an ambush is to ambush the ambushers". So, two of the PCs Dimension Doored while Flying and Invisible into the heart of the Temple complex. The Dragon was immediately aware of them (and the other minions were quickly aware of them), but the High Priest was asleep on a cot next to the altar (even human priests have to sleep sometime). Who was asleep (or even if anyone was asleep) was totally random (underground complex where night and day did not really matter to the occupants).</p><p></p><p>By the time the priest woke up, the combat was already mostly over. He lost 3 rounds of actions due to being asleep (and due to a conveniently cast Silence spell by one of the flying PCs). If he had been awake the entire time, it would have been an extremely serious encounter. Instead, the PCs pretty much mopped up the floor with the NPCs.</p><p></p><p>Not because the NPC plan was terrible (it was actually pretty nasty), but because the first casualty (PC or NPC) of any battle is the plan.</p><p></p><p>This same combat could have just as easily been a total disaster for the PCs if the High Priest had been awake and the PCs had for that first round or so been totally split apart combined with bad dice rolls instead of good ones.</p><p></p><p></p><p>The point is not only that it is difficult to discern the standard tactics of one's enemies ahead of time (PC or NPC), but even when one has foreknowledge of an event (like a battle) or of enemy tactics, the necessities of the moment often immediately outweigh many preparations that one side or the other has made based on the knowledge of those tactics.</p><p></p><p>It's the nature of the beast. DMs (and hence NPCs) are not truly omniscient (and able to plan for every possible PC tactic or even most PC tactics) unless the DM "cheats" (e.g. the NPC makes the save, even though the DM rolled a one) or "fudges" and has the NPCs react perfectly on the spur of the moment (e.g. the NPC just happens to have the precise spell memorized that saves the NPC from certain death at the hands of the PCs to fight another day, even though the DM never wrote down that the NPC even knew that spell in the first place, etc.).</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="KarinsDad, post: 3153349, member: 2011"] Precisely. The enemy who really knows the PCs and their tactics should be the rare exception, not the rule. Otherwise, the PCs should often lose as opposed to win and that does not make for a very lengthy duration game with the same PCs. When I read that PC tactics will eventually become known, I find the comment suspect. Accurate and solid information is often hard to come by and even really well informed NPCs can make huge errors. For example, I recently ran a combat where the NPCs were going to ambush the PCs. They knew the PCs were going to attack and had an extensive counterattack prepared, but even with previously cast Divination type spells, they did not know exactly when the PCs were going to attack. So, they prepared accordingly. The PCs, on the other hand, had cast a Divination spell (first time ever) and got a clue that "The best way to avoid an ambush is to ambush the ambushers". So, two of the PCs Dimension Doored while Flying and Invisible into the heart of the Temple complex. The Dragon was immediately aware of them (and the other minions were quickly aware of them), but the High Priest was asleep on a cot next to the altar (even human priests have to sleep sometime). Who was asleep (or even if anyone was asleep) was totally random (underground complex where night and day did not really matter to the occupants). By the time the priest woke up, the combat was already mostly over. He lost 3 rounds of actions due to being asleep (and due to a conveniently cast Silence spell by one of the flying PCs). If he had been awake the entire time, it would have been an extremely serious encounter. Instead, the PCs pretty much mopped up the floor with the NPCs. Not because the NPC plan was terrible (it was actually pretty nasty), but because the first casualty (PC or NPC) of any battle is the plan. This same combat could have just as easily been a total disaster for the PCs if the High Priest had been awake and the PCs had for that first round or so been totally split apart combined with bad dice rolls instead of good ones. The point is not only that it is difficult to discern the standard tactics of one's enemies ahead of time (PC or NPC), but even when one has foreknowledge of an event (like a battle) or of enemy tactics, the necessities of the moment often immediately outweigh many preparations that one side or the other has made based on the knowledge of those tactics. It's the nature of the beast. DMs (and hence NPCs) are not truly omniscient (and able to plan for every possible PC tactic or even most PC tactics) unless the DM "cheats" (e.g. the NPC makes the save, even though the DM rolled a one) or "fudges" and has the NPCs react perfectly on the spur of the moment (e.g. the NPC just happens to have the precise spell memorized that saves the NPC from certain death at the hands of the PCs to fight another day, even though the DM never wrote down that the NPC even knew that spell in the first place, etc.). [/QUOTE]
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