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Message: <blockquote data-quote="CapnZapp" data-source="post: 6916597" data-attributes="member: 12731">Ah, okay. Yes of course you should calculate the dpr against, say, AC 25. But only to conclude the feat isn't going to be used then. So the actual dpr number should not be included in the "average dpr". Not saying you make this mistake, but I have seen it been made.The next step, then. Yes, above the cutoff point "it is clear and unquestioned that the times when the -5/+10 option isn't used that the +2 strength has superior DPR, since it is both more accurate and more damaging".Absolutely true. But it is also unquestionably true that the difference here is slight, since we're talking about -1 to hit and -1 to damage. So if the the feat, when it does turn on (below the cutoff point), provides a much larger benefit than what is lost when it is not turned on, then the feat can still provide a massive benefit. And the way to calculate this isn't simply to pit the gains from AC 11 and 12, say, against the losses from AC 18 and 19 (again, very simplified).But it is to gauge the number of rounds where you are attacking something with AC 11 and 12, versus the number of rounds where you attack something with AC 18 or 19. And remember, each round vs AC 11 covers a lot of rounds vs AC 19, simply because the gain vs AC 11 is much larger than the loss vs AC 19. (Again, in our ruthlessly simplified scenario only used to make my point come across) It is to this point few if even one analysis has reached. And any analysis that doesn't get here is simply not a good basis for discussion and evaluation.It is now that I am telling you and everybody else that a correctly played GWM or SS character will dominate big in many cases, while not suffering especially much in some.First thing: the cutoff point is not as low as the straight-forward analysis would have you believe. So you can't dismiss the claim simply by saying "sure against zombies it's great". At higher levels (where the feat really start coming into its own, since its damage potential is no longer 8,5 or even 17 points of damage, but 25 or even more) many monsters still have AC lower than 15. And against monsters with AC near or past the cutoff point, you can employ a long list of boosters whose effects are balooned by this feat. Taken by itself, something like the bonus given by Bards or Battlemasters or Clerics seem decent enough. Or advantage (from any of a great number of choices). But when combined with the ability to deal +10 damage, the balance is blown clean out the water.Then it's no longer just weak or clumsy monsters you gain a hefty damage bonus against, but many monsters.So many in fact, that if you're a martial character that does not choose either of these feats, you will have to resign yourself to being severely outdamaged in way too many fights.</blockquote>

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