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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Ovinomancer" data-source="post: 6919907" data-attributes="member: 16814">Well, I must say I'm glad you read the post.  Let's say a zombie.  AC 8, come in hordes, can be used quite effectively to challenge an 8th level party.  The non-SS user hits the zombies as often as they hit an AC 12 monster -- 95% of the time.  The SS user hits the zombies 90% of the time (needs a 3) for an effective penalty of -1 (note, not -5), for +10 damage.  This is useful because the SS archer is hitting for 1d8+4+10 damage, zombies have 22 hit points, so they could, 1 in 8 times, 1 shot a zombie.  This isn't possible for the non-SS archer.  Further, as a matter of basis, the CON save for zombie survival using undead persistence against the SSer is a minimum of DC 20 (5 + minimum damage of 15) and can make the save impossible for the zombie to make on 50% of their hits.But, since I foresee an argument about zombies being a special case, let's look at a gelatinous cube, iconic monster, CR 2, a good addition to a number of types of encounters.  Also, AC 6.  Our SS archer suffers zero penalty whatsoever using SS to attach the GC.  His chance to hit and miss are the same as the non-SS archer, he just does 10 more damage per hit.But, let's go up a bit, and look at something with an AC of 13.  The mighty T-Rex, CR 8, fits this bill.  The non-SS archer hits this big guy on a 2 or better (1 always misses).  The SS archer hits it on a 3 or better without using SS's damage boost, so there's a 5% difference, alright.  But let's go with the SS.  Now the SS archer hits on an 8 or better.  Way worse, a clear -5 penalty.  Until the cleric casts bless, at least.  Now that archer hits on a 7 or better always, and could hit on a 4 or better (rolls a 4 on his Bless d4).  In that latter case, that's only a penalty of -1 over his normal, and only 2 worse than the non-SS archer.  But let's look at what this does for the non-SS archer, because it must help him as much, right?  Nope, it doesn't help the non-SS archer, ever.  Bless to totally irrelevant to his chances to hit.  So, here, a simple bless spell removes the penalty without helping the non-ss archer at all, which was my point.Now, I expect there to be complaints about this wall of text, and I'm sure some whinging about my choice of targets, but I'll make you deal, if you got this far -- you pick the monster, AC 13 or less, and I'll show you it doesn't make a difference.CAVEAT:  this post, in no way, makes any claim about the OP nature, or lack thereof, of the SS or GWM feats.  It is meant to illuminate a point in the broader discussion about the falsity of the statement that you can't get rid of the penalty.  Fin.</blockquote>

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