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Message: <blockquote data-quote="GMforPowergamers" data-source="post: 6729244" data-attributes="member: 67338">I meant easy to play, and I didn't say it was a bad thing, the champion fighter fills a needed void... but there are other voids...  well yes...it's 'easy to make choices just swing sword' is what I meant... that isn't what I meant at all nope...level 8 wizard knows 4+int mod spells +2 per level so about 21 spells they range in level from 1-4 and even the level 1 ones may be usable in higher slots to higher effect. SO my choice points are 'pre game' what spells I know and what ones  I prepare, at table witch prepared ones I use and in witch slot... I also have 3-4 at will spells... and my spells can be pure combat, or no combat, or a mix of the two. I can recall a few spells on a short rest....there is a lot going on. I have a huge list of spells to pull from, and bet I can make 5 or 6 wizards with little to no overlap just form the pHB alone.battle master at level 20 has 6dice he can use, they all come back on a short rest, and 1 comes back if I have none and roll initiative I have 8 of 16 special manuvers that I could have chosen any of at level 3... I can't make a 3rd battlmaster without some over lap, and the manuvers are rather dull some are even just basic options from privus editions.... he is a damage mechine and has more attacks then 2 average adventurers, but he is far from complex...the two are night and day... look at Bo9S in 3.5 or a 4e fighter to see all the options you could have... I want as many bells whistles and I think they call them ribbons on my 16th level fighter as a wizard half my level (see above 8th level wizard) That is in no way "outside what 5e can do" what is roll master? are you kidding, I just showed a 20th level fighter vs an 8th level wizard on amount of complexity... and there were editions that were WAY worse.... are you kidding...yup a champion fighter requires some basic mini/tactic placement, and a battle master a little more of picking manuviers... the wizard has to keep track of spells known prepared and spent and choose when to use each... one is a bit more complex then the others...</blockquote>

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