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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Phazeal" data-source="post: 1958311" data-attributes="member: 27021">The trouble I would have with using the PH rolling system is that it's the one I would like to see them end up using. WITHOUT fudging or adding house rules.If I can play a character with 3d6 no swaps and function, or indeed just LIVE, then they might see that it doesn't make a lot of difference to the enjoyment of the character. With only my character using the 3d6 method not much is likely to change. I just won't shine amongst a group of supernovas. BUT, if they see that I can survive and have fun then they might start considering the virtues of not starting with 5 stats above 15. Especially after seeing how much satisfaction I get from increasing my Dex from 9 to 10 at 4th level. God how good will that be!So maybe by going way too far back the other end of the rolling spectrum I can drag their tastes back to something like the PH method of rolling. Only trouble is I need the DM to be keen on the idea otherwise he won't be strict in the rolling of characters and will eventually slide back to 'ok, take whatever. re-roll, here's an 18', etc.Plus, given that I have been playing 'silver-spoon' characters for so long I wanted to really get stuck into the most useless character (stat-wise) I could and 3d6 no swaps is the best way I know to do that <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />To be honest, three of our guys probably don't contribute that much to the rules base of our group (house rules, etc). I really only need to convince the other two 'central' players of the virtues of more 'reasonable' stats.It is a work in progress.At least, with some of the reponses here, I feel like I have 'some' grounds for doing what I'm doing, rather than just asking to be killed, etc. I'm simply sick of having everything delivered to me on a silver platter. 3x18's an' all. I WANT to do it tough, for things to be challenging, to struggle to shine and feel an overwhelming sense of 'I' when I do, to face a band of orcs at first level and worry, to worry about making a DC10 check, to have my abilities last for one round at first level, to have an armor class something less than a sherman tank at 1st level, to do 1d8 with a longsword (not 1-8+7) and generally to enjoy all the things I've never been able to enjoy because when we start our campaigns with 1st level characters they are effectively 3rd.Pmany thanks for the continued input <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /></blockquote>

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