Do machine guns leave something to be desired?

[Bibliophile]

One thing I've noticed is that in d20 Modern there isn't much distinguishing a machine gun from an assault rifle that can fire @ full automatic settings. So, are machine guns really worth busting the feat for proficiency?

 

[Skywalker]

One thing I've noticed is that in d20 Modern there isn't much distinguishing a machine gun from an assault rifle that can fire @ full automatic settings. So, are machine guns really worth busting the feat for proficiency?

Official answer from the d20 Modern FAQ to this question:

For starters, there's a typo. The M-60 should deal 2d10 damage, not 2d8. Second, you don't actually need the Advanced Firearms feat to use an MG. When you use autofire, you target a 10' square with an effective Defense of 10. Without the feat, you take a -4 on the attack--making the roll, effectively, against a Defense of 14. That's still less than the Defense of many characters, so even an attacker without the feat can use autofire pretty effectively. [So why ever take the Advance Firearms feat? Well, getting rid of the -4 is a small reason, but the big reason is that it's a prereq for other important feats, like Burst Fire.] That leaves us with two advantages to using an M60 instead of a G3: longer range increment, and a large (possibly unlimited) ammo capacity. These factors may not be very important in most roleplaying game encounters, which occur quickly and at close range. That's fine. If your characters are finding that the G3 suits them better in most of their encounters, that's probably pretty
realistic.

 

[Kae'Yoss]

Where can I find the official FAQ?

And you do need advanced firearms, since you need exotic firearms or you get -8 to that attack.

Machineguns do have advantages: their range increment is higher, their damage potential is higher (if you choose a heavy one, and I think when go big, you can as well go huge!), you have much more rounds to shoot before you have to reload: they use chained ammo, and AFAIK the core rules give no special rules on the length of those ammo chains (Ultramodern Firearms d20 states that you need someone to assist you - or use a bipod or mount - if the chain has more than 50 rounds on it).

Sure, they're not everyone's best choice (the need to use a bipod or something because of the huge size limits your movement), but in certain circumstances (mounted on a vehicle for example), they can be quite nice

 

[Skywalker]

Where can I find the official FAQ?

It is being compiled from responses by Charles Ryan. It is not finalised yet but the work in progress can be found at the top of this forum and the one at Wizard's.

And you do need advanced firearms, since you need exotic firearms or you get -8 to that attack.

You don't need the feat. However you do suffer the -8 penalty if you don't have it. However as autofire needs to hit a Defence of 10 this penalty still makes a M60 a useful weapon.

 

[Bran Blackbyrd]

I don't want to derail the thread, but I figured I'd ask this here rather than start a whole new thread.

I have a player who wants his character to carry around an M2HB. My immediate response was, "no way". There's a reason it's a Huge weapon. That's aside from the fact that I don't even think his PC could afford it.
His response was to completely chuck the character and start a new one. Rather childish in my opinion.

Not that I intend to back down, but is carrying one of those around even remotely feasable? He wasn't mounting it on a vehicle, he wanted to carry it around like it was nothing...

(He seemed to be pretty positive that I'd let him have what he wanted despite the fact that his PC has no money and he's the DM that charged our D20M group DC15 to mail three lousy handguns a stun gun and a baton to California.)

Any opinions?

 

[Douane]

Well, since I don't know anything about your campaign, I do not know whether my comments apply. ( For example, we're using D20M for a WWII campaign, so carrying a MG isn't that unusual, at least for one of us. )

However, I don't think the M2HB is a weapon to 'just' haul around. In addition to it's size there's also it's rather prohibitive weight, around 115 lbs. for the WWII, though the improved version might weight less.

Since we have a good number of military types on these boards, I'm sure there are some who have handled that kind of weapon and could talk about it far more professionally.

Concerning money, I don't think this HMG grows on trees. If he has no money how could he hope to afford this kind of weapon? Besides, the question of availability (perhaps only through the black market at an even more inflated price) and legality of possesion and carrying still remains open. [Sorry, don't know enough about the US gun control laws, which will certainly also vary from state to state.]


So I don't think you were unreasonable to deny this request. I would have probably done the same.

Folkert

 

[Kae'Yoss]

I don't want to derail the thread, but I figured I'd ask this here rather than start a whole new thread.

I have a player who wants his character to carry around an M2HB. My immediate response was, "no way". There's a reason it's a Huge weapon. That's aside from the fact that I don't even think his PC could afford it.
His response was to completely chuck the character and start a new one. Rather childish in my opinion.

Not that I intend to back down, but is carrying one of those around even remotely feasable? He wasn't mounting it on a vehicle, he wanted to carry it around like it was nothing...

(He seemed to be pretty positive that I'd let him have what he wanted despite the fact that his PC has no money and he's the DM that charged our D20M group DC15 to mail three lousy handguns a stun gun and a baton to California.)

Any opinions?

Tell him I want to join his group. Starting Occupation: Postman. Wealth DC increase +10

To be serious:
How much do you mean by "no money"? The M2HB has a Purchase DC of 22, which means that, with a wealth bonus of +12, he could take 10 on the check and get it for only -2 on his wealth check. Of course, he'll either need the Military License, or buy it on the black marked, but even then, he could have it for 25 (and a lot of looking around for the black marked, and a skill check, read p.93).

With as much as 2 he could get the gun (provided he has the licence), taking 20 on the check, which would cost him 2d6+1 and almost a month of time. So the money isn't the problem for him, but time: he may not be able to get so much free time! For more info, read pages 91-93

About the carrying: That bugger weights 75 lbs, so he should be fairly strong to carry the thing, at least without becoming heavily encumbered. Carrying capacities are on p.121

As for using it: he can use it only when he uses both hands and a bipod or other mount. That' under Size on p.97. I think it would be a move-equivalent action to set the thing up for firing, and another to pick it up and carry around.

The best bet will be to get a smaller weapon to carry around and use the machinegun only when you can mount it somewhere, maybe a pick-up or something.