Do Mounts Add to the CR?

[AngelBob]

OK, so I want to run an encounter with my PC's fighting some Nomadic Horsemen. So I figure, 4 lvl 1 warriors with a lvl 3 PC leveled Leader. But their Horsemen, right, so I figure Light Warhorses for all. Light Warhorses are CR1.

But whats the ECL of this encounter? Am I looking at an encounter with 4x1/2CR, 5x1CR, 1x3CR? That doesn't seem right to me... but maybe it is? Or is there some rule I can't find somewhere that states how to treat animals or other such companions that are not treated as class features.

I mean, I don't give extra XP for players killing the Animal Companion mount of a Druid, it's part of his class features. But if he bought it or trained it normally, is it then worthy of it's own XP reward and increase in EL?

Thanks for the help o' Diviners of the D&D!

 

[Christian]

Wouldn't they be considered equipment?

 

[frankthedm]

IIRC I have seen both from wotc sources, so it is a toss up.

If the Mounts follow

Without you to guide it, your mount avoids combat.

Then IMHO the mounts are mobile treasure rather than XP.

 

[TheGogmagog]

I'm mixed, part of me wants to say yes, it raises the CR. The part of me that always buys a riding dog or two trained for combat or night-guard duty whenever playing a character below level 5. At the same time it could have been the dog or a potion of invisibility.

The other part says no. It's presumably paid for out of the NPC wealth and therefore treasure. It takes a ride skill check to encourage even a trained mount to attack. On their own they aren't likely to threaten the party should the riders be killed. Attacking the mounts would be akin to attacking the composite longbow they are wielding. It might change the dynamic of the combat, but in itself doesn't defeat the foe.

So would you raise the CR if you bought them all a potion of enlarge person, or invisibility with thier wealth? It would make for a tougher encounter. (potions are also a nice way of keeping character wealth in check, maybe that orc has a potion of magic vestment and barkskin instead of +1 armor and amulet.)

 

[AngelBob]

OK, hmmm, I like the point about them being unlikely to fight without the rider making checks, and that they will be unlikely to fight past their rider's death.

However, a goblin riding a worg, should definitely be an encounter with one goblin and one worg, but this could be justified in the since that the worg will fight on it's own and generally requires no checks to fight or control that much, they are intelligent...

OK. Im siding on "normal horsies"=equipment

But this gets iffie when we start talking about dire badger mounts and so forth...

 

[Caliban]

If you expect them to meaningfully participate in the combat, then yes. Especially at low levels, where even a light warhorse can do significant damage.

If the mount is just being used to enable the mounted combat feats of the rider, but does not actually fight, then I wouldn't include it in the EL.

Special mounts that come from a class ability technically do not factor into the EL consideration.

 

[frankthedm]

OK, hmmm, I like the point about them being unlikely to fight without the rider making checks, and that they will be unlikely to fight past their rider's death.

However, a goblin fighting a worg, should definitely be an encounter with one goblin and one worg, but this could be justified in the since that the worg will fight on it's own and generally requires no checks to fight or control that much, they are intelligent...

OK. Im siding on "normal horsies"=equipment

But this gets iffie when we start talking about dire badger mounts and so forth...

You see Dire badger on the Equipment lists?

 

[Klaus]

Yes, the warhorses add to the ECL. In fact, they add more than their riders.

Creatures only refrain from adding to the ECL when they're produced by abilities already built into another creature's CR (like a paladin's mount or a wizard's summoned monsters).

 

[TheGogmagog]

You see Dire badger on the Equipment lists?

Good point, and also a nice line as to what creatures would add to CR.

 

[AngelBob]

You see Dire badger on the Equipment lists?

I do in Races of Stone.