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<blockquote data-quote="MoogleEmpMog" data-source="post: 3221386" data-attributes="member: 22882">Games with incomplete rules, which rely on GM fiat to stand in the place of good design work, do not interest me as either a player or a GM, but I could tolerate GMing them while I would never consent to play them.Games with complete rules, be they one page or one thousand, interest me as both a player and a GM.&nbsp; In general, games with complete rules offer roughly the same level of player empowerment.&nbsp; The only exceptions I can think of are games like WHFR, which is highly random and thus disempowers both players and GMs, HERO, which is effects-based and thus empowers players more, and games that grant narrative control to players, which (obviously) empower players more.I don't see, for example, True20 or FATE or Savage Worlds as requiring any greater degree of GM fiat than HERO or d20.&nbsp; Frankly, I don't see them as offering fewer options to the players than d20; FATE, arguably, offers even more options than HERO and leaps and bounds more than d20.&nbsp; FATE incorporates some degree of player fiat/narrative control (and is at least as player-empowering as d20, if not much moreso), while True20 and Savage Worlds are just more concise, but still rules-complete, traditional RPGs and offer the same degree of player empowerment.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="MoogleEmpMog, post: 3221386, member: 22882"] Games with incomplete rules, which rely on GM fiat to stand in the place of good design work, do not interest me as either a player or a GM, but I could tolerate GMing them while I would never consent to play them. Games with complete rules, be they one page or one thousand, interest me as both a player and a GM. In general, games with complete rules offer roughly the same level of player empowerment. The only exceptions I can think of are games like WHFR, which is highly random and thus disempowers both players and GMs, HERO, which is effects-based and thus empowers players more, and games that grant narrative control to players, which (obviously) empower players more. I don't see, for example, True20 or FATE or Savage Worlds as requiring any greater degree of GM fiat than HERO or d20. Frankly, I don't see them as offering fewer options to the players than d20; FATE, arguably, offers even more options than HERO and leaps and bounds more than d20. FATE incorporates some degree of player fiat/narrative control (and is at least as player-empowering as d20, if not much moreso), while True20 and Savage Worlds are just more concise, but still rules-complete, traditional RPGs and offer the same degree of player empowerment. [/QUOTE]

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