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<blockquote data-quote="tetrasodium" data-source="post: 8069716" data-attributes="member: 93670">as you start moving between settings the tropes used to build a particular race based on how that race exists in FR start breaking down &amp; in some cases they break down hard.Since we are specifically talking about orcs &amp; half Orcs I'll start with them.&nbsp; Orcs in eberron have a massively different cultural role in the setting... For example:[ATTACH=full]124896[/ATTACH]There is also an eberron specific half orc subrace that adds a bunch of spells to your class spell list but is a bad example in this case because they all look to be on the wizard list &amp; it's other features are a really bad mix for wizard.&nbsp; There is a halfling subrace that adds spells to class lists too &amp; it makes a great no arguing over if that's subjectively good enough example&nbsp; in what it would add to the wizard class spells... This wizard will play viscerally different even before you get into how the dragonmark focus items it gains access to change things[ATTACH=full]124897[/ATTACH]In total there are 13 dragonmark races and there are plenty of reasons why someone might look at a particular races features to say &quot;I want that on my $class even though the +2 is a suboptimal attrib&quot;, Your inability to see or accept or even bother arguing why it's bad speaks towards another problem unrelated to either option.&nbsp;&nbsp; All of the nonhuman races have race features like this but rarely do they risk to the level of shiny that variant human has with &quot;I can bring a (multi)feat based concept online 4 levels earlier&quot; free feat.&nbsp; Moving the attrib bonus out from under race into some other design space like culture/background/whatever allows those racial features to be more interesting &amp; better developed so race plays a bigger role in every class making it so you can have two three four or more players at the same table with the same class but they all play differently because they have different races.&nbsp; The presence of a +2 in one stat vrs some other stat does not significantly change how those two play the game.&nbsp; [USER=6694221]@Haldrik[/USER] are you also unable to see how this wizard with a 14-15 int &amp; +2 in wis along with a bunch of nonwizard spells/new racial features&nbsp; is just as good as the +2 16 int wizard but good in a different way?as much as you protested when [USER=205]@TwoSix[/USER] raised it, this is not a question of bad vrs good, it's a question of good in one way vrs good in other way(s) and still reasonably good</blockquote>

[QUOTE="tetrasodium, post: 8069716, member: 93670"] as you start moving between settings the tropes used to build a particular race based on how that race exists in FR start breaking down & in some cases they break down [I]hard[/I]. Since we are specifically talking about orcs & half Orcs I'll start with them. Orcs in eberron have a massively different cultural role in the setting... For example: [ATTACH type="full" alt="1597942616844.png"]124896[/ATTACH] There is also an eberron specific half orc subrace that adds a bunch of spells to your class spell list but is a bad example in this case because they all look to be on the wizard list & it's other features are a really bad mix for wizard. There is a halfling subrace that adds spells to class lists too & it makes a great no arguing over if that's subjectively good enough example in what it would add to the wizard class spells... [I]This [/I]wizard will play viscerally different even before you get into how the dragonmark focus items it gains access to change things [ATTACH type="full" alt="1597942847438.png"]124897[/ATTACH] In total there are 13 dragonmark races and there are plenty of reasons why someone might look at a particular races features to say "I want that on my $class even though the +2 is a suboptimal attrib", Your inability to see or accept or even bother arguing why it's bad speaks towards another problem unrelated to either option. All of the nonhuman races have race features like this but rarely do they risk to the level of shiny that variant human has with "I can bring a (multi)feat based concept online 4 levels earlier" free feat. Moving the attrib bonus out from under race into some other design space like culture/background/whatever allows those racial features to be more interesting & better developed so race plays a bigger role in [I]every [/I]class making it so you can have two three four or more players at the same table with the same class but they all play differently because they have different races. The presence of a +2 in one stat vrs some other stat does not significantly change how those two play the game. [USER=6694221]@Haldrik[/USER] are you also unable to see how this wizard with a 14-15 int & +2 in wis along with a bunch of nonwizard spells/new racial features is just as good as the +2 16 int wizard but good in a different way? as much as you protested when [USER=205]@TwoSix[/USER] raised it, this is not a question of bad vrs good, it's a question of good in one way vrs good in other way(s) and still reasonably good [/QUOTE]

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