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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Oofta" data-source="post: 9483247" data-attributes="member: 6801845">Not that I'm picking on you, but I have only seen 1 player over the past decade that wanted to optimize the fun out of the game.  They were the type of person that stood in the back and pouted if their PC got a single scratch.  But they were the exception to the rule.So I don't know who you're playing with.  My players? I probably drop 1 or more PCs to zero every 5-6 encounters (at a guess, I don't actually keep track) and the players love it.  They like the challenge, they like fights being difficult.  This has held true whether I'm running my home game or running public games for dozens of different people. In my experience people like to be challenged.  It's not hard to push the difficulty to this level with just a few tweaks to tactics and minor adjustments.So I reject this idea of adversarial DM vs players or that people just want cakewalk fights.  It depends on the group and individual.  I also reject this idea that in order for the DM to have fun you have to run a game the players don't want.  Seriously?  Push the players too far and you'll just have unhappy players.  If the game were more deadly than D&D 5E (whatever that means) it just means that the same players who don't like a DM that runs a challenging game won't like the game system that is more challenging by default.</blockquote>