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<blockquote data-quote="pemerton" data-source="post: 9486859" data-attributes="member: 42582">I don't think the outcomes are subjective at all.Some are beyond dispute - eg that millions of people died, and that the German and Austro-Hungarian and Turkish empires all came to an end.Some are disputed but in my view nevertheless are clear - eg that the modern state, that assumes authority over basically all aspects of economic and social life, came into being.And in any event the post that you replied to was about the causes of the First World War. These are disputed among scholars; there is no metric that will identify them for us; yet no thinks that the First World War was an un-caused event.I'm talking about the causes of the First World War.And the relevance is this: you (and some other posters) assert that everything that cannot be measured is subjective. I've given a counter-example - the causes of the First World War cannot be determined by measurement; yet this event really happened, and so really had some or other cause(s), even though what that might be is subject to reasoned disagreement.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="pemerton, post: 9486859, member: 42582"] I don't think the outcomes are subjective at all. Some are beyond dispute - eg that millions of people died, and that the German and Austro-Hungarian and Turkish empires all came to an end. Some are disputed but in my view nevertheless are clear - eg that the modern state, that assumes authority over basically all aspects of economic and social life, came into being. And in any event the post that you replied to was about the [I]causes[/I] of the First World War. These are disputed among scholars; there is no metric that will identify them for us; yet no thinks that the First World War was an un-caused event. I'm talking about [I]the causes of the First World War[/I]. And the relevance is this: you (and some other posters) assert that everything that cannot be measured is subjective. I've given a counter-example - the causes of the First World War cannot be determined by measurement; yet this event really happened, and so really had some or other cause(s), even though what that might be is subject to reasoned disagreement. [/QUOTE]

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