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Message: <blockquote data-quote="pemerton" data-source="post: 9486939" data-attributes="member: 42582">[USER=29398]@Lanefan[/USER]'s criterion for subjectivity appeared to be that there is disagreement.And there is disagreement about whether or not the earth is flat: a small number of people sincerely assert that it is, while many other people disagree with them.Now, if you take the view that it is objective although subject to disagreement, then in order to show that other judgements are purely subjective you're going to need to do more than point to the mere fact of disagreement.Let H be any historical event that ever occurred. And let C be some posited cause of that event. There is no scientific proof that C caused H. This is because claims of causation in history are not amenable to scientific demonstration.It does not therefore follow that all claims about causation in history are purely subjective.The nature of beauty, and of other values, has been the subject of a lot of discussion over the past few thousands years. It takes more, to show that something is subjective, than simply pointing out that it can't be measure or it can't be proved scientifically or there is ongoing disagreement in respect of it or even there is intractable disagreement in respect of it.</blockquote>