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Do players want challenging games, with a real chance of death?
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<blockquote data-quote="Emberashh" data-source="post: 9216957" data-attributes="member: 7040941"><p>Its something I've been considering in particular as I start pondering certain aspects of my own game. One avenue for a fundamentally interesting "true death" is the idea of families and legacies. </p><p></p><p>I think part of the overall "Bloodline" mechanics in my game, my take on "Race", is going to end up diving into what the name implies, forging your own bloodlines. It'd probably be strongest between conventional Players but I think even with NPCs it'd be an okay way to go. Bloodlines would be another way to build up and strengthen other aspects of the game like Domains or Settlements, and in this context where death is very possible and presumably irreversible, it'd also make a game out of building up "spare" characters that the player can become attached to over time. </p><p></p><p>While I'm a bit nebulous on the mechanisms of getting started (whether or not to gamify romance and all that), I think the idea makes sense. Over in video game land, Bannerlord has a similar "Clan" system to what I'd envision, where your kids can be raised up as your own fiercely loyal vassals and companions, and if you enable death you as Player can hop into one of your kids as your new character. It creates a very rudimentary story machine if you can commit to it over a long period, as your original characters descendants continue to wage wars long after you got stabbed to death. </p><p></p><p>I haven't played it, but IIRC, Pendragon does something similar. Both serve as solid examples of how to make a character's death have some impact that goes beyond just their immediate loss. </p><p></p><p>In either case, the only lacking thing is making the death itself interesting, which I think would be important only so it isn't so anticlimactic if it happens. I can't remember which game it was, but there was the idea where you could go out with a bang, doing some crazy damage or some such for a turn but then you keel over. That'd certainly fit the bill for making the death fun, at least. </p><p></p><p>And in terms of practicality, something like this begs for easy to make characters if we want to maintain a similar death possibility across the entire game rather than just late game. </p><p></p><p>In the early game you'd most likely be starting over, but with survival over time you'll build up your Bloodline, and then you're able to stat, and potentially even play as many different characters, making it worthwhile to really stick with the same campaign over a very long period, simply because you'd be building up all that history, and because it'd be easy to not have the game get stale as you can always just swap out characters or even retire them. </p><p></p><p>And in turn, all of this provides a lot of narrative fodder. Imagine for example you've had a campaign going, and the players have all built up substantial bloodlines, but then one player's character inadvertently makes an enemy out of a big bad, who vows to end their bloodline. And imagine if they succeed! Even partially! A lot of juice there, and you wouldn't need to force it if the overall system can support all of these systemic interactions compounding over time.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Emberashh, post: 9216957, member: 7040941"] Its something I've been considering in particular as I start pondering certain aspects of my own game. One avenue for a fundamentally interesting "true death" is the idea of families and legacies. I think part of the overall "Bloodline" mechanics in my game, my take on "Race", is going to end up diving into what the name implies, forging your own bloodlines. It'd probably be strongest between conventional Players but I think even with NPCs it'd be an okay way to go. Bloodlines would be another way to build up and strengthen other aspects of the game like Domains or Settlements, and in this context where death is very possible and presumably irreversible, it'd also make a game out of building up "spare" characters that the player can become attached to over time. While I'm a bit nebulous on the mechanisms of getting started (whether or not to gamify romance and all that), I think the idea makes sense. Over in video game land, Bannerlord has a similar "Clan" system to what I'd envision, where your kids can be raised up as your own fiercely loyal vassals and companions, and if you enable death you as Player can hop into one of your kids as your new character. It creates a very rudimentary story machine if you can commit to it over a long period, as your original characters descendants continue to wage wars long after you got stabbed to death. I haven't played it, but IIRC, Pendragon does something similar. Both serve as solid examples of how to make a character's death have some impact that goes beyond just their immediate loss. In either case, the only lacking thing is making the death itself interesting, which I think would be important only so it isn't so anticlimactic if it happens. I can't remember which game it was, but there was the idea where you could go out with a bang, doing some crazy damage or some such for a turn but then you keel over. That'd certainly fit the bill for making the death fun, at least. And in terms of practicality, something like this begs for easy to make characters if we want to maintain a similar death possibility across the entire game rather than just late game. In the early game you'd most likely be starting over, but with survival over time you'll build up your Bloodline, and then you're able to stat, and potentially even play as many different characters, making it worthwhile to really stick with the same campaign over a very long period, simply because you'd be building up all that history, and because it'd be easy to not have the game get stale as you can always just swap out characters or even retire them. And in turn, all of this provides a lot of narrative fodder. Imagine for example you've had a campaign going, and the players have all built up substantial bloodlines, but then one player's character inadvertently makes an enemy out of a big bad, who vows to end their bloodline. And imagine if they succeed! Even partially! A lot of juice there, and you wouldn't need to force it if the overall system can support all of these systemic interactions compounding over time. [/QUOTE]
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