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Message: <blockquote data-quote="DonTadow" data-source="post: 2286622" data-attributes="member: 22622">I'd after differ from this assumption of the argument so far.  The basic argument for prestiges from what I gather is that they both provide role playing experiences AS WELL AS fill niches that are missing from the base classes.  I don't know of too many prestiges that can be done by combining the base class with feats or skills.  I'd love to see some examples of this.  My look at prestige classes is that for giving up something the base classes give you, you get something else.  I see prestige classes as alternative base classes.  It reminds me of MMORPGs.  After you get to a certain level, its time to get more specific.  Yes it is nice that you are a rogue, but now you have th e option of having a prestige class that more defines you. SURE you could put some skills in diplomacy and such, but why gain abilities you no longer wish for when you can easily switch to a prc that better defines what you want the character to be.  I"m hearing a lot of what PRcs aren't to the game, they aren't creative, they aren't good, they are the bane of the game. But not what they are and do: 1. They are great goal drivers for players.  This is my favorite reason for prestige classes as they push characters to strive for something more than what they currently are.  HOw is this not great for new players?  It keeps newbies in the game longer because they have a goal.  They ahve a reasonfor gaining experience and they have a reason to really get into role playing.  Especially whenthe DM puts ingame requirements on gaining the prestige by having them go to a specific location or do a specific meditation. 2. They specify characters.  AGain, i require my players to pick one after eight level and by the latest tenth level.  Otherwise, its like floating through college and not picking a major.  Prestige classes help players more define their base class more than feats and skills can.  There are a TON of special abilities for prestige classes that are just not in feats and skills.  Again I ask for evidience, to prove that a prestige can be created using just feats.  "i'm talking base attack, saves, and special abilities.  3.  They are great ways to create great role playing content, and ideas for DMs.  I have NEVER opened up a prestige class and saw a bunch of mechanics.  If you do see this, you mightwant to reread the paragraphs (at least the wotc stuff) that comes before it.  Alot of the time its full of great flavor.  I've created entire communities surrounding certiain prestiges and created wonderful layers of hierchy by using two or three prestige classes. 4. In real life, a person IS defined by what they do so why not in a game.  What you do is a big part of your character.  Again with the rogue example, If i'm a diplomate, I want more diplomat type abilties.  Sneak attacking 4d6 is not really defining who i am. Yes I COULD just put alot of skills in diplomacy, bluff forgery and go with the diplomacy angle, but why? when I can flip open to a prestige class "Noble" (New blackmoor book) and have something that truly fits my character.   I"m pretty sure if they are so much the bane of the game, they wouldn't be included in EVERY single d20 text that comes out.  HOnestly, i think its overkill at times, but it does show how importantthey are to the game.  I don't think anything can limit creativity.  A person only limits creativty themselves when they fear looking beyond the veil.</blockquote>

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