Do Something Cool

[Delgar]

So page 42 of the DMG is great at helping the DM adjuticate when a player decides to do something cool.

But, most players have a character sheet with a bunch of powers and options that all seem way more optimal than trying something cool. So, how do you entice or encourage your players to try something cool?

I've thought about adding something called Hero Points, and making them more akin to 3rd edition eberron's action points. I haven't fully fleshed out this idea yet, but I was thinking that everytime a player successfully did something cool he'd get a hero point.

Those hero points could then be spent to improve future d20 rolls.

1 HP = +2 to any d20 roll
3 HP = Reroll one d20 roll

Anyway, these were just some ideas I was contemplating.

What do other people do? Is this a terrible idea?

Just curious

 

[Umbran]

Action points are fine.

However, you might not need them. If doing cool things works, then they become their own reward. Let your players know that you'll tend to err on the side of letting cool things work at least as well as mundane things, and follow through on that promise, and they'll pick up the habit.

 

[Celebrim]

But, most players have a character sheet with a bunch of powers and options that all seem way more optimal than trying something cool. So, how do you entice or encourage your players to try something cool?

I think that this is a very challenging subject.

The problem with 'does something cool' is that if it is something that is advantageous and repeatable, then they are going to want to attempt it all the time - and almost by definition, if you do it all the time, it isn't 'something cool'. On the other hand, if you make onerous and excessively risky to attempt something cool, then they'll stick with what they know.

There is also a problem in that players tend to assume that what they are allowed to do is what is in the rules, and they tend to limit there propositions (especially after they get a little experience) to just those covered by the rules. It's very easy to become rules blind so that you don't even see propositions that aren't covered by the rules. The more rules you have and the more definitively you outline what a player can do, the more it seems that the rules are comprehensive and if the rules don't cover it, it can't be done. On the other hand, if you go rules light, there is a tendency to think that every proposition is covered by the simple rule - 'I attack' - and the player is never encouraged to think creatively.

Personally, I approve of 'action points', but not for the purpose you are trying to achieve. I think action points are great for mitigating the effect of luck. I'm not sure that they do alot to encourage players to attempt 'something cool'.

Now, I have seen them do that. In WEG Star Wars, a force point does indeed let you attempt 'something cool', and I've seen them used that way. But, force points are much more powerful in effect that the 'hero points' you are talking about, and because of the differences in the resolution system its hard to imagine how d20 points could be made as powerful without them being used mainly for getting an extra edge while doing something normal and boring.

I also worry about mechanics like, "If you do something cool, then you get a bonus from the DM" when that bonus is actually useful, because the player doesn't know what 'something cool' is in that case. I think you are opening yourself up for arguments and hurt feelings when someone thinks that they deserve rewards and don't get them, or when they resent the impression that you are playing favorites.

Honestly, I think that 'something cool' usually occurs entirely unplanned in RPG's. I think that that is part of what makes 'something cool' so cool. If you wanted to entice players into doing something cool, I think you have to do what storytellers in novels do - include the something cool in the scene for the heroes to do. That's hard, but at least you can take inspiration from novels, cartoons, and movies.

 

[Nifft]

Exalted does a pretty good job with their "do something cool" bonus rules. They have three levels of "stunt", and each builds on the others.

The lowest level of "stunt" is describing your action. Anything more than "I hit hit it with my stick" buys you a small bonus.

The second level -- and the highest easily repeatable level -- is describing your action and incorporating the environment. This is important, I think, because it forces two things to happen:

• You must pay attention to more than just yourself; and
• The prerequisites are not contained within the character alone.

Both of these reduce "rote" repetition, for carrot and stick related reasons (respectively).

If I were to steal some form of this for D&D, I'd make sure the environment thing stays in, because that impels the player's attention towards interaction -- with the group, with the setting, with elements of the story outside of himself -- and that makes the game better for everyone.

Cheers, -- N

 

[malraux]

I'm giving everyone a Do Something Awesome powercard. Personally, I think that doing something cool should be its own reward, rather than giving a bonus to the regular actions.

 

[Nifelhein]

Got me curious, what was the 3rd level of stunt in Exalted? I never got around to even try a game of it.

 

[Nifft]

Got me curious, what was the 3rd level of stunt in Exalted? I never got around to even try a game of it.

It's a bit nebulous. The top tier of stunt is only defined as being so cool, everyone at the table is impressed and agrees that you've exceeded the bounds of mundane tier 2 awesomeness.

From a crunchy mechanical standpoint, though, tier 3 is not far from tier 2. There's a vast gulf between tier 1 and tier 2 -- tier 1 only gives a few "magic points" back, while tiers 2 & 3 give back Willpower points, which are in much shorter supply.

Cheers, -- N

 

[Nifelhein]

I see.

I think the entire idea of description or description + environment could be emulated in D&D4 by using the low medium and high columns, gotta love that page.

 

[Tale]

I come from a videogame background. You want a player to learn to do something, show them how first.

Have an NPC in a barfight swing from the chandelier.
Have the enemies flip over the tables and use them for cover.
One enemy tosses a liquor bottle while another enemy blasts it with fire magic for a fire bomb.

If you see an opportunity for the bad guys to do it, do it. Announce it like it's improvised and unplanned (might require acting on your part, throw in a few "uhh"s and "OH, I know!") Roll the dice in the open for these.

 

[Nifelhein]

I like that idea, Tale, you can also say that instead of its basic attack said NPC is going to attempt this: description of awesome here.