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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Mustrum_Ridcully" data-source="post: 3687049" data-attributes="member: 710">There is more to adventuring then just BAB, HD and Saving THrows, though.Typical adventuring skills in my experience also include things like Balance, Climb, Hide, Listen, Move Silently, Spot, Jump, Swim, Escape Artist. I would also make a case that Bluff, Disguise, Diplomacy, Gather Information, Sense Motive and most Knowledge Skills are often enough needed. Why would a Fighter never improve his Knowledge (Arcana) skill if he is wandering with a Wizard who constantly tells him and his friends about the weaknesses of particular magical beasts and explaining what spells he can use and what not? (And why doesn't his Knowledge (Religion) improve if he is around a Cleric who certainly constantly promotes his belief?)Why would a Cleric not pick up a bit of Hide and Move Silently when the group's Rogue and Ranger try to sneak up to the enemy while he has to stay back?Why would anyone that had to do camp duty not pick up a bit of Listen and Spot?The reason in the current D&D skill system is simple: It's to expensive to improve non-class skills. As long as you have to pay for an advancement that is not crucial to your character's concept, you won't take that advancement. It might be power gaming or min-maxing, but it is the truth of the game.The SAGA solution is to give everyone an advancement (though even for skills he most likely never used. Though that is actually pretty limited in SAGA, as the skills have become broader - most characters have no reason to ever get better in a skill like Forgery, but if Forging is just a subset of Deception, this isn't as noticeable)I am not certain that it's the bet solution, but I think it's good enough, and I think it also fits D&D. It reduces some of the options you have in character creation and development, but in turn, it gives you more options during game - Because (at higher levels) you can try skills you usually wouldn't bother with. This probably only applies to things that have static DCs, though - once you have to compete with opponents that are more then mooks, the non-trained characters are still hosed...</blockquote>

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