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Message: <blockquote data-quote="two" data-source="post: 2197026" data-attributes="member: 9002">At the end of the day, we are in agreement.  I like your house rule (4) very well, which does indeed allow the party to talk and at the same time keep (pretty much) their "we go first" advantage which, after all, is blown by the standard D&D initiative system where, after talking, not only is the enemy not flatfooted anymore, but despite any situational negatives gets a straight initiative roll to beat yours to move first if combat breaks out.Readied actions don't change anything; everyone has something readied; who goes first?  Roll init.The party doesn't have a problem with "<img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /><img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /><img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /> for tat".  After all, the party could have used the surprise round to just lay down smack.  Instead, they get a chance to talk and then lay down smack on non-flatfooted fully aware opponents; it's a trade off (assuming you let the party go first).  It's clearly better to just attack.  But if you allow a house rule like yours (4) it also allows the party to talk/parlay.  Clearly a sleeping party would be happy if a band of thieves decided to open dialogue before attacking THEM for very obvious reasons.  There is no balance problem here.Without a house rule, parlay/talking just throws away whatever advantage the party might have had.Surprise round -- byeFlatfooted -- byeWe are assured of acting first -- bye (see loss of surprise round)We might even go twice before they get to go once (see loss of surprise round)No advantages because they are sleeping (slitting throats, etc.) because you woke them.Etc.It's no wonder most parties don't talk first!!!The D&D system:  punishes, punishes, and punishes you for doing this.At the very least, allow the party to burn their surprise round in order to get initiative on their opponents -- after speaking/waking them up, and talking a while.  If only for game-play's sake.In other words, allow the party to make a tactically sub-optimal choice and throw them a bone: let them speak, and then attack.  The thieves are better off than the alternative, and you have had a nice dialogue to boot.</blockquote>

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