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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Celebrim" data-source="post: 2198991" data-attributes="member: 4937">Well I don't.Your example is kinda atypical.  Normally its the PC's that have the advantage on the monsters.  In your case, it was the monsters that had the vastly superior bargaining postion.   Here is how I would have handled it.Bob:  I know goblin. I want to try to parley with the goblins.DM: Ok, say something.Bob:  "Truce.  We want a truce!!!"DM: *clatter* *clatter* (I'm now secretly rolling the PC's Diplomacy check to turn a Hostile attacker into a merely one that dislikes the PC's)DM: Ok, Jon, your turn.Jon: Forget this truce nonsense, I'm attacking... *rolls dice*At this point, it doesn't matter what I rolled for Bob's Diplomacy check.  Bob has failed to get the other player's to go along with the plan, the Goblins don't see any reason to stop attacking if the PC's do, and they go right back to being hostile.   -OR-Jon: Err... yeah, we're in big trouble.  I lower my bow, but if they keep attacking, I'm ready to respond.DM: So is everyone on board with Bob's plan, or does someone have another idea?PC's (jointly):  Yeah, we hold our actions and see what happens.At this point, assuming Bob is diplomatic and has successfully negotiated a truce (diplomacy DC 20), something like the following happens:DM: A deep gruff voice snarls out of the darkness, in gutteral Goblin it says, (Jabba the Hutt), "Hoo Hoo Hoo.  Foolish humans.  You fall right into the trap of the mighty Grulrunk.   Now you tell me why I shouldn't kill you all, take all you have, and feed your worthless corpses to my wives?"Parley ensues.  The PC's are at a serious disadvantage, so I'd give them a big time penalty to thier diplomacy check and to offset that they'd better offer Grulrunk a really good deal or the arrows are going to start flying again.   Grulrunk's position is that the PC's are at his mercy, and his starting position is "Unconditional Surrender".   To get him to accept anything else is either going to involve the PC's offering him something he can't get if they surrender, or really high Diplomacy checks.   In practice though, if the PC's can get creative and offer Grulrunk some valuable service (and I'll invent a need that Grulrunk has that the PC's can handle on the spot if I have to), I'll have Grulrunk accept (with reasonable assurances that the party not break faith) because the alternative is probably campaign ending.   But I think this is a bad example, because in practice usually the PC's are the ones with the vastly superior bargaining position and its the PC's that can reasonably expect to demand what Grulrunk is demanding in the above.</blockquote>

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