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<blockquote data-quote="Retreater" data-source="post: 9259283" data-attributes="member: 42040">True. D&amp;D is the big one. And many points from the video apply to every edition (maybe a little less to 4e) as well as OSR titles (maybe even more). And they apply to related games like Pathfinder and Starfinder. They apply to other games I've experienced multiple sessions of: Traveler, Call of Cthulhu, Warhammer Fantasy,&nbsp; Numenera. This gets to the old complaint that RPGs are often 30 minutes of fun in 4 hours. It is demonstrated when the boards alight with concerns about MCDM's &quot;no attack roll&quot; idea. Even the lightest RPGs are complex games. I've not seen many that don't have &quot;dead turns&quot; or characters whose abilities are essentially worthless for entire combats, sessions, or campaigns. And is that fun? I'd say showing up to a 3-4 hour social activity where your presence is important for 30 minutes or less isn't a good return on investment. Most of the major RPGs we discuss here have that issue.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Retreater, post: 9259283, member: 42040"] True. D&D is the big one. And many points from the video apply to every edition (maybe a little less to 4e) as well as OSR titles (maybe even more). And they apply to related games like Pathfinder and Starfinder. They apply to other games I've experienced multiple sessions of: Traveler, Call of Cthulhu, Warhammer Fantasy, Numenera. This gets to the old complaint that RPGs are often 30 minutes of fun in 4 hours. It is demonstrated when the boards alight with concerns about MCDM's "no attack roll" idea. Even the lightest RPGs are complex games. I've not seen many that don't have "dead turns" or characters whose abilities are essentially worthless for entire combats, sessions, or campaigns. And is that fun? I'd say showing up to a 3-4 hour social activity where your presence is important for 30 minutes or less isn't a good return on investment. Most of the major RPGs we discuss here have that issue. [/QUOTE]

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