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<blockquote data-quote="rmcoen" data-source="post: 9265971" data-attributes="member: 6692404">I skipped some middle pages, so forgive me if this is already said.Been playing Baldur's Gate 3, which is &quot;based on&quot; 5e.&nbsp; I'm aware of all the divergences, that's not the point.&nbsp; The point of bringing it up here is the DCs - and something 5e tried to accomplish with &quot;bounded accuracy&quot;.&nbsp; And that's the idea that the difficulty of most things doesn't scale with level.Comparing to previous editions, for example, a tough lock to open might be DC 15 initially (the PHB purchasable lock), 25 in mid-game, and 30+ (with magical protections and consequences) in late levels.&nbsp; In BG3... most locks are DC 10.&nbsp; some are Hard, DC 14.&nbsp; Some are Very Hard, DC 18 or 20.&nbsp; Then there's the &quot;nope&quot; locks at DC 30, and ULTRA SUPREME VAULT LOCK (DC 99... do the fricking puzzle or find the key!&nbsp; .... or nat20 it because Larian, not 5e).&nbsp; So my githyanki Fighter can actually pick many of the locks we encounter (DEX 14, trained in Sleight of Hand due to racial bonus) on a 6 or better (then 5, then 4 as she levels).&nbsp; and that's okay - the lock is still difficult for my paladin (DEX 10, no training).If GMs can get their head around non-scaling difficulties, then the players can all participate.&nbsp; &quot;The Barbarian with no social skills&quot; (from a previous response) isn't useless at the party, just maybe &quot;-1&quot; on rolls against DC 10 or 12.&nbsp; Yeah, he's in trouble if he starts talking to an inquisitor (DC 16), but he can still mingle and learn things.&nbsp; That paladin doesn't have to wear his full plate to follow the rogue on the scouting mission - his &quot;Stealth +0&quot; just means he shouldn't be darting between tents and campfires like the rogue!&nbsp; Instead, he scouts the edges, looks for sentries, perhaps identifying unexpected religious paraphernalia the rogue isn't paying attention to.This, I think, lends to party participation.&nbsp; No player left behind.&nbsp; Becuase that is a hallmark of &quot;modern games&quot; that I do really appreciate.&nbsp; I hate Hate HATE waiting 30 minutes until it's my turn again - whether it's an RPG or a board game.&nbsp; Either let us all take our turns at the same time, or have us all be involved in the actions of the other players.&nbsp; 5e tries this with Reactions in combat, but the GM needs to facilitate it in &quot;now the rogue scouts / bard shmoozes&quot; situations.&nbsp; And Reactions aren't really enough - once it's spent, you can walk away while the other 10 foes and your 5 allies go.&nbsp; For that reason I like the &quot;players do all the rolls&quot; ideas of 5e Optional Rules and many other TTRPGs - the player rolls defense, instead of (or in addition to) the monster rolling to hit.Lastly, for the &quot;Wizard can't harm the magic resistant high-AC creature&quot;... I liked something I saw in Dragonbane, what they call &quot;Improvised Weapons&quot;.&nbsp; (Really, terrain features you can &quot;use&quot;.)&nbsp; The core mechanic that I liked is that it is (as far as I saw) &quot;an automatic hit&quot; (which may or may not be dodgeable or parryable, depending).&nbsp; For example, that hapless wizard might grab a burning log from the campfire and shove it in the golem's face.&nbsp; The wizard &quot;hits&quot; (even if the golem tanks some or all of the autodamage), and successfully causes a distraction for a round.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="rmcoen, post: 9265971, member: 6692404"] I skipped some middle pages, so forgive me if this is already said. Been playing Baldur's Gate 3, which is "based on" 5e. I'm aware of all the divergences, that's not the point. The point of bringing it up here is the DCs - and something 5e tried to accomplish with "bounded accuracy". And that's the idea that the difficulty of most things doesn't scale with level. Comparing to previous editions, for example, a tough lock to open might be DC 15 initially (the PHB purchasable lock), 25 in mid-game, and 30+ (with magical protections and consequences) in late levels. In BG3... most locks are DC 10. some are Hard, DC 14. Some are Very Hard, DC 18 or 20. Then there's the "nope" locks at DC 30, and ULTRA SUPREME VAULT LOCK (DC 99... do the fricking puzzle or find the key! .... or nat20 it because Larian, not 5e). So my githyanki Fighter can actually pick many of the locks we encounter (DEX 14, trained in Sleight of Hand due to racial bonus) on a 6 or better (then 5, then 4 as she levels). and that's okay - the lock is still difficult for my paladin (DEX 10, no training). If [I]GMs[/I] can get their head around non-scaling difficulties, then the players can all participate. "The Barbarian with no social skills" (from a previous response) isn't useless at the party, just maybe "-1" on rolls against DC 10 or 12. Yeah, he's in trouble if he starts talking to an inquisitor (DC 16), but he can still mingle and learn things. That paladin doesn't have to wear his full plate to follow the rogue on the scouting mission - his "Stealth +0" just means he shouldn't be darting between tents and campfires like the rogue! Instead, he scouts the edges, looks for sentries, perhaps identifying unexpected religious paraphernalia the rogue isn't paying attention to. This, I think, lends to party participation. No player left behind. Becuase that [I]is[/I] a hallmark of "modern games" that I do really appreciate. I hate Hate HATE waiting 30 minutes until it's my turn again - whether it's an RPG or a board game. Either let us all take our turns at the same time, or have us all be involved in the actions of the other players. 5e tries this with Reactions in combat, but the GM needs to facilitate it in "now the rogue scouts / bard shmoozes" situations. And Reactions aren't really enough - once it's spent, you can walk away while the other 10 foes and your 5 allies go. For that reason I like the "players do all the rolls" ideas of 5e Optional Rules and many other TTRPGs - the player rolls defense, instead of (or in addition to) the monster rolling to hit. Lastly, for the "Wizard can't harm the magic resistant high-AC creature"... I liked something I saw in Dragonbane, what they call "Improvised Weapons". (Really, terrain features you can "use".) The core mechanic that I liked is that it is (as far as I saw) "an automatic hit" (which may or may not be dodgeable or parryable, depending). For example, that hapless wizard might grab a burning log from the campfire and shove it in the golem's face. The wizard "hits" (even if the golem tanks some or all of the autodamage), and successfully causes a distraction for a round. [/QUOTE]

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