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<blockquote data-quote="Daztur" data-source="post: 6062516" data-attributes="member: 55680"><p>Neonchameleon: 2ed is hardly my edition of choice but I think you're overstating how complicated it is. My brother ran a 2ed campaign when he was still having trouble with his multiplication tables and it went fine because:</p><p>-You can often just ignore the more complicated bits (such NWPs and weapon proficiencies which are rather stupidly quirky) and it works just fine. If you ignore the complicated bits of more recent editions that causes more problems.</p><p>-Knowing what you can do as a thief or fighter is pretty damn easy and for the casters having the spells effects written out with less game jargon made it pretty easy to understand as kids, we didn't have to know what a "close burst" or any terminology like that was, which makes the learning curve of 2ed less steep than recent editions (but the curve keeps on going longer if you want to learn all of the ins and outs which really add up if you play things by the book).</p><p>-Some of the stuff you mentioned just doesn't come up often enough to be annoying. Stuff like every class having the same XP to advance looks neater on the page but doesn't really make much difference in actual play since you're only consulting those charts once per sessions.</p><p>-More of the rules load is placed on the DM rather than on the player, this makes it easier for the player to just say what their character is going to do and have the DM tell them what to roll. This makes it easier for newbie players and since more rules stuff is placed on the DM and the DM is the guy who gets to decide whether to follow the rules or just handwave things to speed things up or because they can't be arsed to look it up, dealing with the rules is often easier. So for example if you have a 2ed player who doesn't have a clue what ThAC0 is or how saves work its not really a problem (been there, done that, works fine). If you have a player who doesn't know how AoO's work that's a much bigger problem.</p><p>-In WotC-D&D when you're creating a character you have to make a lot more important decisions than in 2ed. In 2ed you can just choose a the weapon prof for whatever available weapon does the most damage and whichever NWPs sound fun and you'll be good to go. With WotC-D&D you have to actually know what the <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" /><img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" /><img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" /><img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" /> you're choosing does or you'll gimp your character badly (less of an issue in 4ed than in 3.5ed).</p><p></p><p>So there's plenty of crunch in 2ed but it's a lot easier to dodge the crunch in 2ed (in my experience) than in later editions. I'd still prefer Rules Cyclpedia though, it avoids a lot of the silly <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" /><img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" /><img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" /><img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" /> that piled up in 2ed.</p><p></p><p>As far the OP question, it looks like the Dark Age is over and we're hitting the Renaissance right on schedule. Google+ hangouts and finding players via social media means it's easier to play, Kickstarter and PDF means its easier for people to get their stuff in print and in people's hands so we're seeing a massive surge of stuff getting printed by hobbyists (or small operations like Evil Hat) and a real wealth of options as well as so much free stuff on blogs. I can dig up more useful stuff for free now (one page dungeons etc. etc. etc. etc.) than I could if I'd bought out the entire stock of my local gaming store back when I was a kid and a lot of this is just beginning, for example the surge of making game material compatible with old editions is just a few years old and we've already seen so much good stuff.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Daztur, post: 6062516, member: 55680"] Neonchameleon: 2ed is hardly my edition of choice but I think you're overstating how complicated it is. My brother ran a 2ed campaign when he was still having trouble with his multiplication tables and it went fine because: -You can often just ignore the more complicated bits (such NWPs and weapon proficiencies which are rather stupidly quirky) and it works just fine. If you ignore the complicated bits of more recent editions that causes more problems. -Knowing what you can do as a thief or fighter is pretty damn easy and for the casters having the spells effects written out with less game jargon made it pretty easy to understand as kids, we didn't have to know what a "close burst" or any terminology like that was, which makes the learning curve of 2ed less steep than recent editions (but the curve keeps on going longer if you want to learn all of the ins and outs which really add up if you play things by the book). -Some of the stuff you mentioned just doesn't come up often enough to be annoying. Stuff like every class having the same XP to advance looks neater on the page but doesn't really make much difference in actual play since you're only consulting those charts once per sessions. -More of the rules load is placed on the DM rather than on the player, this makes it easier for the player to just say what their character is going to do and have the DM tell them what to roll. This makes it easier for newbie players and since more rules stuff is placed on the DM and the DM is the guy who gets to decide whether to follow the rules or just handwave things to speed things up or because they can't be arsed to look it up, dealing with the rules is often easier. So for example if you have a 2ed player who doesn't have a clue what ThAC0 is or how saves work its not really a problem (been there, done that, works fine). If you have a player who doesn't know how AoO's work that's a much bigger problem. -In WotC-D&D when you're creating a character you have to make a lot more important decisions than in 2ed. In 2ed you can just choose a the weapon prof for whatever available weapon does the most damage and whichever NWPs sound fun and you'll be good to go. With WotC-D&D you have to actually know what the :):):):) you're choosing does or you'll gimp your character badly (less of an issue in 4ed than in 3.5ed). So there's plenty of crunch in 2ed but it's a lot easier to dodge the crunch in 2ed (in my experience) than in later editions. I'd still prefer Rules Cyclpedia though, it avoids a lot of the silly :):):):) that piled up in 2ed. As far the OP question, it looks like the Dark Age is over and we're hitting the Renaissance right on schedule. Google+ hangouts and finding players via social media means it's easier to play, Kickstarter and PDF means its easier for people to get their stuff in print and in people's hands so we're seeing a massive surge of stuff getting printed by hobbyists (or small operations like Evil Hat) and a real wealth of options as well as so much free stuff on blogs. I can dig up more useful stuff for free now (one page dungeons etc. etc. etc. etc.) than I could if I'd bought out the entire stock of my local gaming store back when I was a kid and a lot of this is just beginning, for example the surge of making game material compatible with old editions is just a few years old and we've already seen so much good stuff. [/QUOTE]
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