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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Riastlin" data-source="post: 5670019" data-attributes="member: 94022">[MENTION=56189]Kzach[/MENTION]:  You are still missing my point, so I will try to better explain it as I concede it may have been confusing.In the example I set up, I am fully aware of the fact that the ranger prevented the damage to the invoker.  This actually is why both versions were the same.  In the combat time frame of that one monster's turn in initiative, 24 points of damage was dealt in both examples.  In one case, the damage was dealt to the invoker, in the other it was dealt to the monster.  Obviously, having the damage dealt to the monster is preferable to the party, but the same total amount of damage was dealt during that turn.  Going with the unsafe assumption that most combats end with one side either all dead/unconscious or running away due to having too few hp's left, both versions bring the fight 24 points closer to resolution.I admit that my example did not involve a leader class taking an out of turn action.  That is actually irrelevant to your comment about out of turn actions speeding up combat.  Your analysis also ignores the distinction I was drawing between speeding up play and shortening the number of combat rounds.  These two are not necessarily the same thing.  Interrupts and reactions do slow down combat even if they reduce the total number of rounds.  Play tends to really bog down as the different PCs and/or monsters start throwing interrupts around.  I've seen actual turns (not rounds or combats) take close to ten minutes to resolve because of all the interrupts and reactions being tossed around and then trying to recall where were before the interrupt spam.  I will grant you though that off turn actions will generally reduce the number of combat rounds, just that play speed slows down and rounds take longer (the point that you claim is patently absurd).    Your point about the cleric buffing the invoker so that he gets hit less often is right on target.  The only problem is that it reinforces my comment about defensive buffs drawing out combats.  As you point out, the invoker gets hit less often with the cleric's buff up.  As a result, it takes longer for the monsters to kill the PCs (which is a perfectly viable combat resolution).  Of course everyone has different experiences but I also think it is a bit unrealistic to assume that there is some sort of "base experience".  There is no base per RAW scenarios for an entire campaign outside of using the published adventures.  At some point the DM has to choose which critters to throw at the party.  I personally do not think the "base experience" is that DMs choose blindly without consideration for the party in any respect which seems to be what you are referencing.  More to the point though, I was responding to your contention that my combats are long and drawn out (your words) so here, my personal experience absolutely matters since you specifically referenced it.  My experience then also becomes relevant to the OP because it shows that it can be done in a way that is still entertaining to some (though not necessarily all as everyone is different). As for homebrewing, I apologize.  I did not mean to offend you which is why I stated it was an honest question.  I rarely venture into the homebrew forums here so did not know your history.  That is why I asked because you made it sound as if you normally do go strictly RAW.  I do now understand though what you were saying, so again my apologies.All of this goes back to the original question though of "Do we need a leader?"  My contention is that no, you do not, and that this will not necessarily cause long and drawn out combats.One thing I will absolutely agree on though is that generally speaking, if the party follows the "standard guidelines" for party composition, the game will run relatively smoothly all things being equal AND it will likely make the DM's job easier.</blockquote>

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