Upgrade your account to a Community Supporter account and remove most of the site ads.

Reply to thread

Message: <blockquote data-quote="Numlock" data-source="post: 5498163" data-attributes="member: 6669286">Of course when making two systems (One Class-less and one with Classes) of the same completeness, the Class-less system is the hardest to get totally balanced. This doesn't mean I think Developers who use Classes are just too stupid to make Class-less systems.I'm going to make a list of pro's and con's.Classes:Pro's:-FlavourUsing only the standard fantasy classes with all their own 'Cool thing', DnD instantly creates this fantasy feel.-Simple(r) CharGenJust having to choose a Class, and not seperate skills, powers, feats, etc. speeds up CharGen considerably. (This is on average, some Class systems might have slow and complex CharGen, and some Classless systems might not)Con's:-Less freedom for playersIf I want to play a healing, unarmored, lockpicking 1st level Char in DnD, I'm screwed.-Less controlable for GM'sHarder to make NPC's stats fit with their personality. Everytime a player wants to be a Class from some exotic book, the GM has to learn new rules. If a players says he wants to play something that isn't their, the GM has the complex task of creating a Class.Class-less:Pro's:-Freedom:I can be everything I want. Priest-Barbarian-Thief, albeit some what unrealistic, is no problem.-Originality:DnD 3.5 has 11 (standard) Classes. If I don't like some of those, it'll only take a few campaigns before I am playing almost exactly the same Char (rulewise) as a few games before. Class-less systems don't have this.Con's:-Complex:Freedom is hard. Everything in Class-less systems is more complex, because it has to be more compatible. Combat rules have thousands of exceptions noted, every skill has complex effects if used in collaboration with other, certain things don't work together, this has to be noted and explained. (Somewhat exaggerated <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f61b.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":P" title="Stick out tongue    :P"  data-smilie="7"data-shortname=":P" />) -Harder to understandWhereas DnD you only need a basic understanding of the rules, and a bit better understanding of your Class, Classless systems require you to know something about everything you chose and things relate to those chosen things. Combine this with a very complex system (see above) and it's no wonder new players just give up when I force them to read GURPS.All above was meant to be unbiased, I'm not sure I succeeded. If I missed things (which I surely did) please tell me.Now, for my personal opinion.I like these complex Class-less systems because they are complete. I found out that the best way to introduce GURPS to new players and viceversa, I discovered lately, is to not show them the rules. Just tell them the setting, the goal their character should have and some pointers, and tell them to start writing a character. When done, I allow them to see the inside of the book, so they can find the adv/disadv/skills that fit their written character. Never had the situation were they came up with something, and GURPS didn't deliver.</blockquote>

Verification