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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Samuel Leming" data-source="post: 1968562" data-attributes="member: 16462">I was worried that nobody was understanding the point I was trying to make.Psion gets it.Exactly.  Let fighters take feats to improve their unarmed combat.JVisgaitis gets it, but disagrees with me.  I can't win them all. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" />Wouldn't this class have to have variable BAB, HD & saving throw progressions based upon what was being modelled?  Why would Mike Tyson and the wrestler be good at all three saves?  Why wouldn't Bruce Lee & Jackie Chan get the fighter's bab progression?It may help to look at it this way. You don't have separate classes for using swords, maces or bows, so why have a separate class just to get effective unarmed combat? An unarmed combatant isn't really anymore of an archetype than a swordsman or a bowman.  I think creating new feats so the fighter and any other class can gain these abilities if the player wants them bad enough would be a more productive route.Here's the way I see your example list:<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Jackie Chan == Swashbucker class with unarmed combat feats and good ref save rather than fort.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Mike Tyson == NPC Warrior class with really high stats(D&D already handles this guy).</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Bruce Lee == Fighter class with lots of unarmed combat feats.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Monk as is == Monk as is.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Wrestler == Fighter with unarmed combat and grappling feats.</li> </ul>The monk is the odd one out due to it's mystical abilities.I envision monks that follow different paths from the standard core monk.  Disciplines based on weapons work or even athletics rather than unarmed combat.  I'll even include mystic monks that follow divine, arcane or psionic disciplines rather than the physical on their quest for perfection.Part of the background history of the monk class is that many of them are bastards and orphans left on the monastery steps. Starting out in the class is part of the monk's base archetype.Sam</blockquote>

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