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Message: <blockquote data-quote="(Psi)SeveredHead" data-source="post: 1968566" data-attributes="member: 1165">Fewer people know about real druids than about real monks, so there's a smaller flavor base to upset. The druids existed in their heyday a long time ago, while you can read books about Japanese monks and samurai written from the 1100s to beyond the 1600s. While I've read a few samurai stories (never seen any of the movies, though) I've yet to see a book, comic, movie, show or any kind of media about druids, bards or Indian holy men other than some vague historical work and DnD.Even so, people did complain about the flavor of the 2e druid. Anyone remember the stupidity of 2e's neutral alignment? Even in 3.0, people complained until WotC fixed the weapon oath rules.Druids have spells. While their spell list is pretty small, it does mean any two druids could use different spellcasting combinations. Druids have a good "replay" value.Druids aren't designed as front-line fighters, but they can do it - indeed, while their wildshape can make a druid really good at front-lining anyway, they get special attacks (pounce! trip! etc) and high ability scores contribute to a front-liner who doesn't ... suck.Monk players often try to be front-line fighters because they really want to play a martial artist, and there's no way to play one in DnD, only to find that they can't hit anything (low BAB, low if any enhancement bonus, and spread out stats).Plus, greater magic fang (the 3.5 version) can enhance all of a druid's natural attacks at +1, or several at +x, whichever you choose. If you were to cast this spell on a monk, you would need to cast it once for his forehead, once for each knee, each elbow, each hand, each foot... Druids have the means to enhance their own combat ability without resorting to an overpriced magic item* and don't need another party member's help to do this, and the flavor is accurate too (since most animals don't have an unlimited number of natural attack areas, unlike a monk).* Not only is the amulet of mighty fists overpriced (it is for monks, it's practically broken in the "hands" of a thri-kreen), but it takes up the same slot your periapt of Wisdom takes up.Similar items include the bracers of striking, which turn your hands (and only your hands) into magic weapons. Uh huh. Right. Your monk is a boxer, or he shouldn't be using this item.There was a necklace of something or other which was pretty balanced for thri-kreen <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /> It enhances a certain number of natural weapons, based on it's price. How many natural weapons does a monk have again?The only successful ways I have seen of doing this in 3.5 or a similar high-magic setting is either to use the Hands as Weapons* feat from AU (be prepared for your oathsworn to sit for months as his body gets enhanced) or perhaps a better ki strike (one that lasts a shorter period of time but gives an actual enhancement bonus to attack and damage). Alas, the latter contributes to magic bloat. WotC has done neither.* It should be called "Body as Weapon".Monks do too much unarmed damage. I can hear the hissing already. If you compare the damage a high-level monk does to a high-level fighter, the fighter does more, but I have a reason for saying this. Their unarmed base damage is too high. It's difficult for WotC to balance this. If they make a decent amulet of mighty fists it will simply push monk damage so high it's not balanced. (Instead of 2d10 + Strength it's not 2d10 + 1d6 fire + 5 enhancement plus Strength...) IMO their base damage should be cut, to a max of 1d10 damage, and then given an actual enhancement bonus to attack as well as damage roles, in a manner which is balanced, cost-effective, flavorful, and doesn't take away from any other essential magic items.Monks are meditative and lawful! As I said before, the monks have stolen the unarmed combat niche. Since WotC hasn't done unarmed combat very well (unlike D20 Modern) it's next to impossible for another class to take the role, or for a new class to take the role. A lot of people don't like this aspect of the monk.To build on this meditative aspect, monks get really good saves and a bunch of magic-bloat and/or nearly useless abilities which people didn't ask for. Yes, I can definitely see the value of hardly ever failing saving throws, and having my worst save (probably Fortitude) being protected since I'm immune to poison and stuff like that, and SR on top of that, plus the ability to dimension door and run three times faster than most of the other party members but I didn't ask for it. The abilities are simply spoon-fed to the player of the monk.In D20 Modern there's a wonderful feat called Combat Martial Arts. It's a bit stronger than Improved Unarmed Strike - it does 1d4 base lethal damage, does not draw AoOs and lets you threaten an area. It has a BAB pre-requisite of +1 and no Dex pre-requisite. Not that powerful, being literally weaker than a dagger. Yet I find it being used all the time (including by myself when I'm running a Modern game).Part of the secret is that "light fighters" in D20 Modern aren't weak. Your class bonus to Defense lets you survive without using armor. The Melee Smash talent (any light fighter will probably take levels of Fast and Strong) really shores up the damage inflicted. Finally, in most D20 Modern campaigns you can't walk down the street with a greatsword without being arrested <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f600.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":D" title="Big grin    :D"  data-smilie="8"data-shortname=":D" />To help with the low damage, D20 Modern has the Martial Artist advanced class. The best way to take it (not the fastest, but the best) is to take a combo of 4 levels divided among Fast and Strong. This will easily net you all the pre-requisites for the class. The class itself gives you a full BAB, the best class Defense bonus for an advanced class, a reasonable damage progression, has no lawful pre-requisite, has not even a scrap of magic, and doesn't even have Concentration as a class skill! For a BAB loss of a measly one point (rather than, say, 5 points) you get a character you can build yourself. You can even take Archaic Weapons Proficiency (basically making you proficient with all martial weapons for only one feat) if you choose. (A lot of those movie martial artists will use swords and spears, too, and real-life martial arts monks often did this as well.)Of course, it only works because you're not supposed to use FX. There's no magic weapons to make the Strong/Tough Hero flat-out better than you. That guy also had to pay feats for his armor proficiencies, too.The Game Mechanics (a company owned by some of the people who wrote D20 Modern) expanded on this just a little. They have a feat called Martial Arts Weapons Proficiency which makes you proficient with three weapons from a list (basically the monk weapons, with a few additions and subtractions). Take it twice, and you're a ninja <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />They also have a prestige class based on the Martial Artist which has some limited FX-like abilities, but you don't have to take it, and of course it's not stronger than the Martial Artist, just different.Monks are really weak at low level, and it's asking a bit much for the 1st-level wizard with only 2 or 3 spell slots to cast mage armor on you. Until Eberron came out, I never saw a 1st-level monk who didn't plain suck. With Eberron, there's a Mark of the Sentinel dragonmark that lets you cast mage armor on yourself 1/day, which is pretty good at low-level. Of course, it means you must be a member of House Deneith, or you're going to be quite weak.</blockquote>

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