Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Next
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
Twitch
YouTube
Facebook (EN Publishing)
Facebook (EN World)
Twitter
Instagram
TikTok
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
The
VOIDRUNNER'S CODEX
is coming! Explore new worlds, fight oppressive empires, fend off fearsome aliens, and wield deadly psionics with this comprehensive boxed set expansion for 5E and A5E!
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Do We Really Need Multiclassing?
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Neonchameleon" data-source="post: 9042878" data-attributes="member: 87792"><p>5e multiclassing is an awkward patch to a fundamental flaw in the design of most 5e characters. With certain honourable exceptions (lead by the warlock, with sorcerer, ranger, and bard following as spells known casters with the wizard bringing up the rear) if you don't multiclass then if you look at the character at level three then in the overwhelming majority of cases by level 16 the PC will have made one and a half meaningful choices that can not be changed by a simple long rest in how they grow after level three.</p><p></p><p>This is because literally everything is hardcoded in terms of how you grow and ASIs are better than all but the very best feats. So by level 15 the majority of single classed PCs are going to have raised their prime stat to 20 and will have <em>a</em> feat. Possibly one and a half feats if they started with a prime stat of 17. And in the case of a divine caster their choice of spells isn't meaningful because they can change that with a single long rest's notice. </p><p></p><p>This doesn't mean that a barbarian is a druid, or a moon druid is a wildfire druid. But all those choices are made by level three. If you were to almost clone your level 3 wildfire druid and send one through twelve levels of Fantasy naughty word Vietnam in a gritty setting and the other through twelve levels of whimsical feywild adventures then when they met up at level 15, give both a shower, a shave, and identical clothing and equipment and the only meaningful <em>mechanical</em> difference between these two druids who have lived very different lives is one to one and a half feats. Your life does not have a mechanical impact.</p><p></p><p>This, of course, isn't true for warlocks or even sorcerers. A warlock is likely to pick up a different range of invocations based on what they have faced, and warlocks and sorcerers alike pick their spells for their environments. And yes I'm aware e.g. fighters get extra feats, and Totem Warriors have a couple of choices within the class and there are a very few characters that don't rush to 20 in their primary stat. But for most 5e characters who don't multiclass there is about as much character development through mechanics and in terms of response to your environment as there is from optimised min-max net-built 3.5 characters.</p><p></p><p>5e is a <em>bit</em> better. The new half-feats being better than the ASIs at least gives you more options, so you can grow within your class while responding to your environment in your growth.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Neonchameleon, post: 9042878, member: 87792"] 5e multiclassing is an awkward patch to a fundamental flaw in the design of most 5e characters. With certain honourable exceptions (lead by the warlock, with sorcerer, ranger, and bard following as spells known casters with the wizard bringing up the rear) if you don't multiclass then if you look at the character at level three then in the overwhelming majority of cases by level 16 the PC will have made one and a half meaningful choices that can not be changed by a simple long rest in how they grow after level three. This is because literally everything is hardcoded in terms of how you grow and ASIs are better than all but the very best feats. So by level 15 the majority of single classed PCs are going to have raised their prime stat to 20 and will have [I]a[/I] feat. Possibly one and a half feats if they started with a prime stat of 17. And in the case of a divine caster their choice of spells isn't meaningful because they can change that with a single long rest's notice. This doesn't mean that a barbarian is a druid, or a moon druid is a wildfire druid. But all those choices are made by level three. If you were to almost clone your level 3 wildfire druid and send one through twelve levels of Fantasy naughty word Vietnam in a gritty setting and the other through twelve levels of whimsical feywild adventures then when they met up at level 15, give both a shower, a shave, and identical clothing and equipment and the only meaningful [I]mechanical[/I] difference between these two druids who have lived very different lives is one to one and a half feats. Your life does not have a mechanical impact. This, of course, isn't true for warlocks or even sorcerers. A warlock is likely to pick up a different range of invocations based on what they have faced, and warlocks and sorcerers alike pick their spells for their environments. And yes I'm aware e.g. fighters get extra feats, and Totem Warriors have a couple of choices within the class and there are a very few characters that don't rush to 20 in their primary stat. But for most 5e characters who don't multiclass there is about as much character development through mechanics and in terms of response to your environment as there is from optimised min-max net-built 3.5 characters. 5e is a [I]bit[/I] better. The new half-feats being better than the ASIs at least gives you more options, so you can grow within your class while responding to your environment in your growth. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Do We Really Need Multiclassing?
Top