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<blockquote data-quote="Dausuul" data-source="post: 6269438" data-attributes="member: 58197">Going from 1 attack to 2 attacks is a gigantic power boost. Instead of &quot;extra attack,&quot; read &quot;attack for double damage every round.&quot; Only better, because you can split the damage between two targets. For a typical great weapon fighter, assuming a 70% hit rate*, that's worth +12 to +13 on your damage rolls--that's how big a damage bonus you would have to give the fighter to match the benefits of Extra Attack.If the other classes are to keep up with the fighter, they will need some comparably huge boost at 5th level. Whether the current classes are balanced or not is irrelevant to that.[SIZE=-2]*Hit rate is relevant because the public playtest incarnation of the GWF gets bonus damage on a miss. Yeah, I went there. I'm not saying it's a good thing, and I expect it will be replaced with something else considering the reaction it got, but it's what's in the current public ruleset. And &quot;extra attack&quot; means your damage-on-a-miss gets doubled, too.[/SIZE]Not even close. The math is about the same for a barbarian as for a great weapon fighter. If you want to use barbarian rage to substitute for the benefits of Extra Attack, rage needs to go from +2 damage at 4th level to +15 damage at 5th. If you prefer to do it with bonus damage dice, 3d8 would be about right.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Dausuul, post: 6269438, member: 58197"] Going from 1 attack to 2 attacks is a [I]gigantic[/I] power boost. Instead of "extra attack," read "attack for double damage every round." Only better, because you can split the damage between two targets. For a typical great weapon fighter, assuming a 70% hit rate*, that's worth +12 to +13 on your damage rolls--that's how big a damage bonus you would have to give the fighter to match the benefits of Extra Attack. If the other classes are to keep up with the fighter, they will need some comparably huge boost at 5th level. Whether the current classes are balanced or not is irrelevant to that. [SIZE=-2]*Hit rate is relevant because the public playtest incarnation of the GWF gets bonus damage on a miss. Yeah, I went there. I'm not saying it's a good thing, and I expect it will be replaced with something else considering the reaction it got, but it's what's in the current public ruleset. And "extra attack" means your damage-on-a-miss gets doubled, too.[/SIZE] [FONT=Verdana]Not even close. The math is about the same for a barbarian as for a great weapon fighter. If you want to use barbarian rage to substitute for the benefits of Extra Attack, rage needs to go from +2 damage at 4th level to +15 damage at 5th. If you prefer to do it with bonus damage dice, 3d8 would be about right.[/FONT] [/QUOTE]

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