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<blockquote data-quote="Mistwell" data-source="post: 4732339" data-attributes="member: 2525">Any other definition does not obsolete the entire concept of hindering terrain.&nbsp; And, it can be used, and it does exist.&nbsp; It's actual TERRAIN.&nbsp; You know, things like areas with lots of sharp rocks, pits, precipices, or a camp fire.&nbsp; The purpose of the rule is related to longer term environmental effects, not short term effects created by individuals such as through spells. The intent is to allow players to slide foes into damaging areas.&nbsp;&nbsp; DMG-p44 &quot;Using forced movement to pull, push, or slide creatures onto ice, or into a pit, or into a cloud of daggers is a clever tactic.&quot;It's the &quot;pinball&quot; tactic that creates the issue.&nbsp; This IS a common <a href="http://www.enworld.org/forum/d-d-4th-edition-rules/236164-d-d-4th-edition-battle-tactic-murder-pinball.html" target="_blank">complaint on the boards</a>, and there is a lot of discussion about it.&nbsp; Heck, there is even this about it:<img src="http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3072/2664339841_9d7f9c9fc9_o.jpg" alt="" class="fr-fic fr-dii fr-draggable " data-size="" style="" />I believe there is a fairly compelling argument about how it only effects you once per forced movement in some other threads.&nbsp; Regardless, twisting the hindering terrain rule to deal with it is not the solution.&nbsp; Also, Wall of Fire is a bad example in my opinion.&nbsp; It states &quot;Entering a square occupied by the wall costs 3 extra squares of movement&quot;.&nbsp; Mind you, it does not say it is difficult terrain (which forced movement ignores).&nbsp; It says it costs 3 extra squares of movement.&nbsp; So, I'd probably rule that it would be rather difficult to pinball someone through a wall of fire, given how much movement you need to do it.While it is a complaint on the boards, I do not know of any reports where this tactic has ruined the game.&nbsp; Yes, it is an issue, and no, the hindering terrain rule is not the solution.Your exaggeration is not helpful.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Mistwell, post: 4732339, member: 2525"] Any other definition does not obsolete the entire concept of hindering terrain. And, it can be used, and it does exist. It's actual TERRAIN. You know, things like areas with lots of sharp rocks, pits, precipices, or a camp fire. The purpose of the rule is related to longer term environmental effects, not short term effects created by individuals such as through spells. The intent is to allow players to slide foes into damaging areas. DMG-p44 "Using forced movement to pull, push, or slide creatures onto ice, or into a pit, or into a cloud of daggers is a clever tactic." It's the "pinball" tactic that creates the issue. This IS a common [URL="http://www.enworld.org/forum/d-d-4th-edition-rules/236164-d-d-4th-edition-battle-tactic-murder-pinball.html"]complaint on the boards[/URL], and there is a lot of discussion about it. Heck, there is even this about it: [IMG]http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3072/2664339841_9d7f9c9fc9_o.jpg[/IMG] I believe there is a fairly compelling argument about how it only effects you once per forced movement in some other threads. Regardless, twisting the hindering terrain rule to deal with it is not the solution. Also, Wall of Fire is a bad example in my opinion. It states "Entering a square occupied by the wall costs 3 extra squares of movement". Mind you, it does not say it is difficult terrain (which forced movement ignores). It says it costs 3 extra squares of movement. So, I'd probably rule that it would be rather difficult to pinball someone through a wall of fire, given how much movement you need to do it. While it is a complaint on the boards, I do not know of any reports where this tactic has ruined the game. Yes, it is an issue, and no, the hindering terrain rule is not the solution. Your exaggeration is not helpful. [/QUOTE]

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