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Message: <blockquote data-quote="cignus_pfaccari" data-source="post: 1809947" data-attributes="member: 14557">I'm afraid I have to disagree with that.  What says liberation and freedom more than a slave swinging the chains he was bound with?  And why is the Sword & Fist whipmaster an inherently Good PrC, when the primary use of a whip involves subjugation?  And if a sword is good, then why did that blackguard just smite me with it?My point really was more that if it were truly broken, then no one in their right mind would deny themselves the use of it.  I could do lots of cool things with a spiked chain, but I could do almost all of them with a heavy flail and do more damage without spending a precious, precious feat on it.  The nicest thing about it is that it threatens a 10' radius around a Medium PC.  I don't see how that's a big deal; it negates a giant's reach advantage, but, you know, if he could hit you, you could 5' adjust in with no AoO and hit *him*, too, with a normal weapon!If I'm tripping you with it, well, you're tripped.  However, given the crappy damage die, I'm not doing much damage, and if I'm trying to do damage (i.e. have cranked up Power Attack), I'm not going to be tripping or disarming you, now, am I?  If you are tripped, well, it's not a big deal; either 5' adjust back and stand up (since you're out of his threat range, he can't hit you and trip you...and I don't see anything saying you have to be standing to 5' adjust), or just suck up the prone penalty and lay into him if you're next to him!  Or, heck, you can suck up the Trip attack, and he might miss!  If you're worried about being tripped, take Prone Attack.  Trip *him!*  He won't have nearly the bonus, and maybe he'd like a taste of his own medicine?Yes, you can Weapon Finesse it...but that's another precious, precious feat you have to spend, and then only if you have a high Dex.  If I'm trying to do damage, I'd rather have a high Str, and wouldn't worry about Weapon Finesse.Oh, and I can use it with Two-Weapon Fighting...which is yet another of my precious, precious feats to spend, which makes it harder for me to do the other fun things with the chain.Yes, it can do all of that...but to be able to do all of that, you have to spend 7-9 feats (EWP: Spiked Chain, Weapon Finesse, Combat Expertise, Improved Trip, Improved Disarm, Combat Reflexes, Two-Weapon Fighting, Imp. TWF, Greater TWF).  For a human non-fighter, that's 15th level without considering the Imp. or Grt. TWF feats.  That's almost all your feats, and it would be all for a nonhuman.  A human fighter can get that all that by 6th level, true, but he needs Power Attack, so that's 8th level, and if I want to be cool, I need Dodge, Mobility, Spring Attack, and Whirlwind Attack, that's 12th level...and Weapon Focus and its tree, so I can hit more often and do more damage, so that's 18th level...hey, I'm almost epic now!  If I'm spending most of my feats on one thing, I ought to be able to use it and have some fun with it, I'd think.Why haven't I used it?  Never felt like spending all the feats associated with it.  However, I do have to say, the idea of twirling a chain around my character's head to beat someone up with it is awfully tempting.  Maybe I'll build my next character around one.  <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />Brad</blockquote>

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