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<blockquote data-quote="mayanglyph" data-source="post: 1818729" data-attributes="member: 25428">Exactly.The spiked chain games that I've played in are constant exercises of 5' moves and trip/AoO max'ing. Many enemies can't effectively mount an attack on a high-strength chain max'er &amp; a supporting group.Run forward to try to get within 5' reach, get tripped &amp; suffer huge penalties/take damage. Take a 5' move to get to 10' reach (intending to take another 5' move the next round... noting that &quot;You can’t take more than one 5-foot step in a round, and you can’t take a 5-foot step in the same round when you move any distance&quot;)... the chain guy hits/trips you at 10' reach, and takes a 5' move backwards to put you out of effective range. Use a 10' reach weapon that isn't a cheesy spiked chain, and you can be threatened by 5' reach weapons (including the spiked chain) that you can't respond to.And Trip attacks are made against Touch AC (which ignores armor)... which is insanely good.Combat Reflexes is the big killer because of the 10' reach/5' threaten. A fairly constant declaration is &quot;I try to move within 10' reach of every enemy&quot; unless I force the use of miniatures.The other feats are gravy... Finesse, Improved Trip, Disarm etc. Combat Expertise/Improved Trip are stumbling blocks... but that's just part of the overall min/max build, and factoring 13 INT is really easy with the point-buy method... PLUS, if you just dump into Strength, the +4 STR stat mod for Improved Trip isn't that important anyway.It really is all about tripping and 10'/5' threatening (AoOs). It bugs the heck out of me because it forces me to design encounters based on rules crap for SINGLE players rather than fun for an entire group.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="mayanglyph, post: 1818729, member: 25428"] Exactly. The spiked chain games that I've played in are constant exercises of 5' moves and trip/AoO max'ing. Many enemies can't effectively mount an attack on a high-strength chain max'er & a supporting group. Run forward to try to get within 5' reach, get tripped & suffer huge penalties/take damage. Take a 5' move to get to 10' reach (intending to take another 5' move the next round... noting that "You can’t take more than one 5-foot step in a round, and you can’t take a 5-foot step in the same round when you move any distance")... the chain guy hits/trips you at 10' reach, and takes a 5' move backwards to put you out of effective range. Use a 10' reach weapon that isn't a cheesy spiked chain, and you can be threatened by 5' reach weapons (including the spiked chain) that you can't respond to. And Trip attacks are made against Touch AC (which ignores armor)... which is insanely good. Combat Reflexes is the big killer because of the 10' reach/5' threaten. A fairly constant declaration is "I try to move within 10' reach of every enemy" unless I force the use of miniatures. The other feats are gravy... Finesse, Improved Trip, Disarm etc. Combat Expertise/Improved Trip are stumbling blocks... but that's just part of the overall min/max build, and factoring 13 INT is really easy with the point-buy method... PLUS, if you just dump into Strength, the +4 STR stat mod for Improved Trip isn't that important anyway. It really is all about tripping and 10'/5' threatening (AoOs). It bugs the heck out of me because it forces me to design encounters based on rules crap for SINGLE players rather than fun for an entire group. [/QUOTE]

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