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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Quickleaf" data-source="post: 6135776" data-attributes="member: 20323">I don't know, you could be right, but I got a lot of play out of most of the Outer Planes when I ran a 2e Planescape game. Maybe for a game based in the mortal world like most traditional D&D campaigns there were too many, but for Planescape it seemed about right. I think the para- and quasi- elemental planes were a bit ridiculous in number, but they were never the focus of Planescape - the Outer Planes were.The often cited example of an extraneous plane is Bytopia, which IIRC some of the current designers poked fun at. Bytopia was defined as a "Plane of Conflict" in Planescape, and it had 2 built-in tensions that made it both interesting as an adventuring locale and distinct from other planes:(1) The ideals of an enlightened democracy as realized there, but it's a delicate balancing act to maintain. LG sects of Mt. Celestia want to see greater regulation of trade, better codified laws, and charity for those who can't help themselves. NG sects of Elysium want to see greater individual freedom to work in a field of one's choosing or to not work at all, and would find the Bytopians preoccupation with work to come at the detriment of the deeper questions and joys of life. A DM might incorporate this into their campaign as a question of the welfare state. Sure it's not armed conflict, but there's certainly room for subterfuge.(2) Bytopia is itself two models of utopia: one agricultural/pastoral and the other industrial (albeit on a family workshop scale not overburdening the ecology). There's an inherent tension between these two layers which need to remain in balance that the PS books alluded to but didn't explicitly state. The DM could come up with a spire connecting the two layers witha resource both need - would the struggle for the resource become a source of conflict or can the PCs help broker an equitable solution?Lastly, Bytopia was one of the Upper Planes of Conflict, along with Elysium and the Beastlands. These planes are highly sought after by Fiends who want to corrupt or damage them, but must do so covertly or thru proxies.So Bytopia is a delicately balanced dual utopia with neighbors who would see it pulled toward a welfare state or varying levels of law, and fiends who want to corrupt the work ethic Bytopia stand for. However too much outside influence might cause the two Utopias to fall out of balance with each other and bring the whole paradise crashing down. That's the unique sort of theme Bytopia empowers a DM to use in a game.</blockquote>

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