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Message: <blockquote data-quote="NerfedWizard" data-source="post: 4849246" data-attributes="member: 68865">2nd Ed is in the same bracket as 3e/3.5The real issue is not the meat and bones of the rules, nor even the style of adventure that people play (railroaded or whatever). It's that 2nd edition is when the game lost its gonads. Let's be honest here, AD&D 1st edition had Deities and Demigods taking a more than irreverent look at a number of still-practised major world religions. It used the word "demons" without fear. It had housecats killing magic-users.* In one hit. You had your basic character class and that was more or less what you were - you were a fighter, a cleric, a magic-user, an illusionist, whatever. It was an honest, raw, basic vehicle for rough and ready dungeoneering. It was a game which boasted on its cover that it had a hardback encylopedia of monsters running to XYZ pages, because in those days that was top notch. It was a game with the confidence openly to dictate to the players and DM all sorts of things about random treasure and random encounters, while at the same time being built on such a simple, slender structure that you could tinker with it all you liked without bringing the whole edifice toppling down. This was a game with balls. *OK, still an issue in 2nd edition In 2nd edition, in contrast, everything was sanitised and the atmosphere and character of the game was toned down to something really quite bland. Then they brought out things like The Complete Fighter and character kits which on top of widespread use of non-weapon proficiencies and general powercreep meant that the options for customising your character turned the whole thing into an exercise in player appeasement rather than just getting on with cutting down some orcs. 3rd/3.5 is basically 2nd edition taken to pieces and fitted back together again so that you can do things like slot levels in one class on top of levels in another, taking the internal logic of 2nd edition to its maximum, then adding some excruciatingly annoying XP budgets for encounters and all sorts of other stupid rubbish, IMHO, YMMV. Plus more of the endless ratcheting up of everyone's hitpoints which really just makes you wonder who they think they're fooling - yes you've got 5 more hitpoints than you had in the previous edition, but so has everyone else so what's the point? It's just more numbers to count. So OD&D and 1st edition were old-school. 2nd, 3rd, 3.5 are modern D&D. BECMI is a child-friendly interface which has its natural home somewhere between AD&D 1st edition and AD&D 2nd edition. 4th edition because of its structure based around powers which everone has access to and its blatant fixing in advance of treasure parcels and challenges is a totally different entity altogether. AD&D 1st edition sought fun in the raw feeling of exposure to danger. AD&D 2nd edition hid sheltered away from the rawness and ballsiness of 1st edition and offered player appeasement. From another perspective it was basically a slightly more "sensible", "flexible", "modern", "open-minded" version of AD&D. It sought fun by letting players play what they wanted to play and setting the adventures up to give them the sorts of experiences they wanted. D&D 3rd edition and 3.5 basically went nuts over internal logic and coherence, taking 2nd edition to bits and putting it back together again with trainspotter-style obsessiveness plus another dose of player appeasement. Like 2e it sought fun by letting players play what they wanted to play and setting the adventures up to give them the sorts of experiences they wanted. D&D 4th edition is the ultimate >> so far << in player appeasement. It seeks fun by trying to give everyone something cool to do all the time, trying to make every character *awesome* and trying to ensure that at each stage of the game everything is *cool*. So, old-school:- 1st edition; modern:- 2nd/3rd; weird & shiny:- 4th. IMHO, YMMV etc.</blockquote>

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