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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Lancelot" data-source="post: 5681724" data-attributes="member: 30022">Our campaigns always set out to hit it, but we have never managed it so far in 4e. All of our campaigns start at 1st level. We've had several campaigns terminate in TPKs at 8-10th level. We've had two campaigns terminate in TPKs at 19th level. We've had one campaign terminate in a TPK agonizingly close at 20th level.Interestingly, the TPKs always happen in the "high tier" numbers. We've never had a TPK at, say, 5th level... or 13th level. It's always on the cusp of switching tiers. I think, in part, it could be due to the monsters and NPCs ramping up a little faster than the PCs at the breakpoints. You're effectively fighting paragon-level opponents (say, level+3 foes), but you haven't yet received your paragon-level benefits.Our group has actually begun to see that as a desirable feature of 4e, not a bug. Reaching Paragon or Epic level is a real challenge, so there's a sense of accomplishment for doing so. As soon as you hit paragon, you get a bunch of new path features and many other tasty benefits (feats generally get better, etc), which allows you to coast through 11th-13th level pretty easily.Of our current campaigns, one is at 9th level and the other is at 15th level. We fully intend to see them run into Epic levels but, if you asked my players to put money on it, I feel confident they'd all bet that we'll terminate in TPKs at 19th or 20th level.</blockquote>