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Message: <blockquote data-quote="KarinsDad" data-source="post: 7183869" data-attributes="member: 2011">How exactly is "don't play the mechanics" any different than what I have been saying the entire time?Where exactly did I post 'don't tell players anything because game mechanic abstraction means there is no possible way the characters can perceive any difference in anything they do'? Yes, my very first post didn't go into all of the details of other ways of knowing that information, but I never stated that it was impossible for PCs to know. You are the one who posted that it is "Well, with the Dex save bonus, it'll be bloody obvious because they dodged out of the way incredibly quickly.". Why must that be the case? Why must it be obvious? Why can't it be that they turtled up? Or hid behind a shield? Or said a quick prayer to their deity that was answered? Or just plain got lucky (less fire than normal hit them by pure happenstance)? Yes, we need a game mechanic (Dex save) to determine the results (you saved, so you take half damage), but why does the mechanic have to 100% reflect the narrative description of what happened every single time?Why can the game mechanic just be the rule that determines the result and something else sometimes be the description? And why is it a sin to have situations where the players do not know what game mechanic resulted in a given result, or that the players are in the dark about what a give result even is?In your game world view of "With resistance, an experienced player will see the creature get engulfed in the flames and not look as damaged as it otherwise should.", why does the PC (I assume you meant PC, not player) always 100% notice how much damage a foe takes, why does the PC always know how much damage the foe should have taken, why does the PC know anything about the protective capabilities of the foe AT ALL? The foe might not seemed very damaged because he has a ton of hit points. The foe might not seemed very damaged because it is an illusion. The foe might not seem very damaged because it is a creature whose outwards appearance does not indicate its inward damage. Or, the caster might not be observant enough to notice anything special at all? Or alternatively, there could be situations where it is totally obvious like you seem to espouse.Why is your game restricted to not include other possibilities?My position is the same. Don't just use the numbers and mechanics to determine what you let players know. Change it up a bit. Add some mystery. If you do it a given way, don't just always do it that way. Don't let the numbers drive your game. The numbers drive the results, but they shouldn't always drive what the PCs and players know about a situation.</blockquote>

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