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<blockquote data-quote="Ovinomancer" data-source="post: 6903189" data-attributes="member: 16814">There's no automatic answer.&nbsp; A creature doesn't have to be intentionally hiding to be undetected, especially if unseen.&nbsp; Use some common sense.&nbsp; However, in general, if the creature is engaged in activity -- fighting, talking, etc. -- then their location would be known, but they would be still be unseen.&nbsp; In combat, it's usually best to have creatures be detected unless they are taking the hide action to prevent it (and meet the criteria).&nbsp; Outside of, or before combat, it's a rulings issue -- the DM should use common sense and the situation to determine what the answer is.&nbsp; A non-active creature in deep foliage during a rainstorm?&nbsp; I'd set a high DC to notice without a hide check.&nbsp; Hide checks would get advantage, perception would be disadvantaged, etc.On a side note, if the looking party is distant from the obscured party, say 100+ yards, sight is really the only means of detection and it would be impossible to detect the creature absent extreme activity.If pressed to set a DC, I'd use the creature's passive stealth with disadvantage (so 5+DEX(hide)) as the baseline, modify for external conditions, and check against player's passive perceptions with disadvantage (lack of sight is a big blow, so unless they have class or racial abilities to offset, I tend to have perception rolled at disadvantage when sight can't help).</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Ovinomancer, post: 6903189, member: 16814"] There's no automatic answer. A creature doesn't have to be intentionally hiding to be undetected, especially if unseen. Use some common sense. However, in general, if the creature is engaged in activity -- fighting, talking, etc. -- then their location would be known, but they would be still be unseen. In combat, it's usually best to have creatures be detected unless they are taking the hide action to prevent it (and meet the criteria). Outside of, or before combat, it's a rulings issue -- the DM should use common sense and the situation to determine what the answer is. A non-active creature in deep foliage during a rainstorm? I'd set a high DC to notice without a hide check. Hide checks would get advantage, perception would be disadvantaged, etc. On a side note, if the looking party is distant from the obscured party, say 100+ yards, sight is really the only means of detection and it would be impossible to detect the creature absent extreme activity. If pressed to set a DC, I'd use the creature's passive stealth with disadvantage (so 5+DEX(hide)) as the baseline, modify for external conditions, and check against player's passive perceptions with disadvantage (lack of sight is a big blow, so unless they have class or racial abilities to offset, I tend to have perception rolled at disadvantage when sight can't help). [/QUOTE]

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