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<blockquote data-quote="Oofta" data-source="post: 9047634" data-attributes="member: 6801845">I'm not hung up on what you do.&nbsp; What I get hung up on is the broad statement &quot;By doing goal and approach this problem goes away&quot; which is quite different from &quot;I use goal and approach because then I know ____&quot;.&nbsp; What gets stated is not particularly helpful unless you give more detail on what it means.&nbsp; In other words, it's not clear how often it is used (Always? Just out of combat? When the DM indicates something unusual?) and it's not clear how it makes much of a difference.For example &quot;I open the door&quot;.&nbsp; Okay ... I'm going to assume you open the door like a normal human being. Since I'm not a &quot;gotcha&quot; DM I won't punish people for &nbsp;If you literally followed &quot;goal and approach&quot; it would have to be something like &quot;I want to get the door open so I reach down with my hand and grasp the knob and twist it while pulling.&quot;&nbsp; Or ... how you go about picking a lock (does a locksmith just get a free pass?) or detailed explanations of how to disable traps, or any number of things.But y'all don't ever give actual examples or details.&nbsp; I'd ask Iserith, but he refused to answer questions so hard they blocked me.&nbsp; All I want is to understand what you really mean because it's not clear.I answered that already.&nbsp; Most of the time the answer would be &quot;It's not going to work&quot;.&nbsp; The goal is quite clear, they want to punch a hole in the side of a ship.&nbsp; Is the ship a birch bark battle canoe or old ironsides?&nbsp; The DM needs to make a judgement call on what is practical.&nbsp; But if it's not clear to the player what material they're trying to break with a punch, which rarely happens, I'll just ask for clarification.&nbsp; It probably happens once every 5-10 game sessions at a guess.&nbsp; So once every 40ish hours of play, if that, the DM has to get a little more detail.&nbsp; I'll try to make notes if it happens over the next week at all where it's not clear, I'm playing a game and running a couple over the weekend.As I answered initially if the players are trying to break down a gate, it depends on the gate.&nbsp; But if they say &quot;I smash down the gate&quot; then I assume they want to actually smash down the gate.&nbsp; If they state &quot;I hit the gate with my axe&quot;, that's a different.&nbsp; If it's the latter, I'd say their axe hits the gate with a solid &quot;thunk&quot; and we'll figure out what level of damage I think it would do, which would typically be little or none.&nbsp; Which is maybe a bigger difference?&nbsp; I don't care if the PC is trying to confuse the guards.&nbsp; In fact, I don't even want to know, I want the guards to react the way I think they should react.&nbsp; Immediately attack?&nbsp; Tell the PC to stop or they'll be dealt with?&nbsp; The PC gets boiling hot water (oil is too expensive, that's a myth) and stones dropped on them from above?&nbsp; I don't really care if their goal is to attract the attention of the guards or not, I'll decide what the guards do based on how I think they'll react based on their perception of events and their goals and attitudes.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Oofta, post: 9047634, member: 6801845"] I'm not hung up on what you do. What I get hung up on is the broad statement "By doing goal and approach this problem goes away" which is quite different from "I use goal and approach because then I know ____". What gets stated is not particularly helpful unless you give more detail on what it means. In other words, it's not clear how often it is used (Always? Just out of combat? When the DM indicates something unusual?) and it's not clear how it makes much of a difference. For example "I open the door". Okay ... I'm going to assume you open the door like a normal human being. Since I'm not a "gotcha" DM I won't punish people for If you literally followed "goal and approach" it would have to be something like "I want to get the door open so I reach down with my hand and grasp the knob and twist it while pulling." Or ... how you go about picking a lock (does a locksmith just get a free pass?) or detailed explanations of how to disable traps, or any number of things. But y'all don't ever give actual examples or details. I'd ask Iserith, but he refused to answer questions so hard they blocked me. All I want is to understand what you really mean because it's not clear. I answered that already. Most of the time the answer would be "It's not going to work". The goal is quite clear, they want to punch a hole in the side of a ship. Is the ship a birch bark battle canoe or old ironsides? The DM needs to make a judgement call on what is practical. But if it's not clear to the player what material they're trying to break with a punch, which rarely happens, I'll just ask for clarification. It probably happens once every 5-10 game sessions at a guess. So once every 40ish hours of play, if that, the DM has to get a little more detail. I'll try to make notes if it happens over the next week at all where it's not clear, I'm playing a game and running a couple over the weekend. As I answered initially if the players are trying to break down a gate, it depends on the gate. But if they say "I smash down the gate" then I assume they want to actually smash down the gate. If they state "I hit the gate with my axe", that's a different. If it's the latter, I'd say their axe hits the gate with a solid "thunk" and we'll figure out what level of damage I think it would do, which would typically be little or none. Which is maybe a bigger difference? I don't care if the PC is trying to confuse the guards. In fact, I don't even want to know, I want the guards to react the way I think they should react. Immediately attack? Tell the PC to stop or they'll be dealt with? The PC gets boiling hot water (oil is too expensive, that's a myth) and stones dropped on them from above? I don't really care if their goal is to attract the attention of the guards or not, I'll decide what the guards do based on how I think they'll react based on their perception of events and their goals and attitudes. [/QUOTE]

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