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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Kae'Yoss" data-source="post: 3037530" data-attributes="member: 4134">The cleric part can be considered powergaming or min/maxing, but remember why the cleric is so strong. Suggest to the players that they insist the party cleric heals them. If he doesn't, why should they have him around? Don't do your job and you get voted out of the party. That means he might have a thousand cool spells, but most of them get converted into healing, anyway.The little person part might just be that he doesn't want to play a halfling in particular (out of fear of being called a pervy hobbit-fancier  <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" /> ), but wants to play a small character. Can be solved with showing him other small races or doing the proper adjustment to a human to be "undersized" (I think of something like small size, -2 str, +2 dex)In that case, I'd say: Not this time. I might look at them, but it will take time, and before I have looked at them, they're not in. And I wouldn't count them as Genuine Wizards spells unless he has the actual book. Who knows they haven't been tampered with (whether by him or by someone else)? You're an old cumudgeon  <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f61b.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":p" title="Stick out tongue    :p"  data-smilie="7"data-shortname=":p" />. Cleric shouldn't be limited to healing and buffing. They should be good at the alignment-based stuff (holy word), at invoking divine assistance (conjuration spells to summon or call deific aid) and a couple of other things beside buffing and healing.They should not be good at direct damage. But they're not. Not even with Nimbus of Light or Deific Vengeance. They can't hold a candle to a wizard. After all, there always was Flame Strike. But wizards' damage spells on the same level will always be more effective. Deific vengeance is 1d8 per two levels or something like that. On that level, wizards get scorching ray, (agannazar's) scorch(er), snilloc's snowball swarm, melf's acid arrow. These spells outperform deific vengeance in damage and/or affected area, and in one case SR appliance.What spells like these do is to make a passable spelldamage dealer out of clerics, which can be good when stuff like that is needed and the wizard isn't quite up for the task (or he's not around)I just allow clerics (and other divine casters) all sources, never really had a problem with it.Of course, in my next game, there won't be clerics. It's either Midnight (where there's only channelers) or homebrew, using 3 classes (warrior, expert, spellcaster) and Elements of Magic, meaning all spells that could ever be cast are already there, without the need of any extra books.</blockquote>

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