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<blockquote data-quote="Jack Daniel" data-source="post: 5289149" data-attributes="member: 694">Since this comes from personal experience, it's anecdotal evidence only, but character building is the very thing that got me fed up with the d20 System.&nbsp; Instead of actually playing their characters -- banter, in-character speech, planning what they wanted their characters to actually do in the game-world -- table-talk whenever I DM'd a 3e game always had the players banging on about what feats and class levels they'd be taking when they racked up enough XP to ding.&nbsp; I just got sick of it.Now I use the Basic Set and the Rules Cyclopedia.&nbsp; And in between the stretches of dungeon or wilderness exploration plus the odd combat encounter (which are, by the book, short and sparse, thank goodness), the table-talk is all about how cool the character's strongholds and armies will be when they finally reach name level, or how they'll spend their treasure on this or that scheme -- you know, stuff that actually means something in the game universe.&nbsp; It promotes in-character thought, discussion, and action rather than out-of-character meta-gaming.So, yes, it really is a dichotomy.&nbsp; There's only so much brainpower (possibly a finite resource) and time at the game table (definitely a finite resource) to go around.&nbsp; I like to see it spent on role-playing rather than on planning how to stack building-blocks to get the highest possible tower of numerical advantages.&nbsp; In my experience, you just can't have it both ways.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Jack Daniel, post: 5289149, member: 694"] Since this comes from personal experience, it's anecdotal evidence only, but character building is the very thing that got me fed up with the d20 System. Instead of actually playing their characters -- banter, in-character speech, planning what they wanted their characters to actually do in the game-world -- table-talk whenever I DM'd a 3e game always had the players banging on about what feats and class levels they'd be taking when they racked up enough XP to ding. I just got sick of it. Now I use the Basic Set and the Rules Cyclopedia. And in between the stretches of dungeon or wilderness exploration plus the odd combat encounter (which are, by the book, short and sparse, thank goodness), the table-talk is all about how cool the character's strongholds and armies will be when they finally reach name level, or how they'll spend their treasure on this or that scheme -- you know, stuff that actually means something in the game universe. It promotes in-character thought, discussion, and action rather than out-of-character meta-gaming. So, yes, it really is a dichotomy. There's only so much brainpower (possibly a finite resource) and time at the game table ([b]definitely[/b] a finite resource) to go around. I like to see it spent on role-playing rather than on planning how to stack building-blocks to get the highest possible tower of numerical advantages. In my experience, you just can't have it both ways. [/QUOTE]

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