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<blockquote data-quote="Jeremy Ackerman-Yost" data-source="post: 5290645" data-attributes="member: 4720">Not really.&nbsp; It depends on the game and the table.Knitting is external to the 4e rules as written.&nbsp; And the rules relationship to the table work sort of like the U.S. Constitution relationship to the individual states.&nbsp; Whatever details are not laid out within the rules themselves are left to the DM and players to do with as they will.There is nothing preventing you from writing on your character sheet that you are a tremendously skilled knitter of yarn.&nbsp; Nor is there anything preventing you from simply announcing this at the table one day.&nbsp; It would take a substantial corner case to make your character's knitting skill relevant to the adventure-based rule-set of 4e.&nbsp; If you find such a corner case, the DM decides how to adjudicate the situation.You are very narrowly defining &quot;implemented in the game.&quot;&nbsp; If my character knits or plays the harmonica, it is implemented in the game anytime it comes up when we're RPing, hanging out in town, or table-talking about what our characters are doing.&nbsp; But since neither of those things are assumed to have a substantial effect within the context of adventuring, the DM and players decide what the influence of those skills is on the narrative.Maybe my harmonica is an affectation that does nothing but irritate another player character.&nbsp; Is that &quot;implemented in the game&quot;?&nbsp; Must it serve a plot purpose?&nbsp; If I am captured and my party finds my hidden prison in the warren of dungeon pits by following my harmonica music, does that suddenly implement my previous harmonica playing in the game?&nbsp; Should the DM require a Harmonica skill roll from me just to see if I can make the sound travel X number of feet so the party can hear it?If so, that was not my intent.&nbsp; I should have included more of your argument and broken down my response better.&nbsp; I was talking about your &quot;detail budget&quot; and how it will limit player concepts in certain games, not at all about games that use this modeling approach.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Jeremy Ackerman-Yost, post: 5290645, member: 4720"] Not really. It depends on the game and the table. Knitting is external to the 4e rules as written. And the rules relationship to the table work sort of like the U.S. Constitution relationship to the individual states. Whatever details are not laid out within the rules themselves are left to the DM and players to do with as they will. There is nothing preventing you from writing on your character sheet that you are a tremendously skilled knitter of yarn. Nor is there anything preventing you from simply announcing this at the table one day. It would take a substantial corner case to make your character's knitting skill relevant to the adventure-based rule-set of 4e. If you find such a corner case, the DM decides how to adjudicate the situation. You are very narrowly defining "implemented in the game." If my character knits or plays the harmonica, it is implemented in the game anytime it comes up when we're RPing, hanging out in town, or table-talking about what our characters are doing. But since neither of those things are assumed to have a substantial effect within the context of adventuring, the DM and players decide what the influence of those skills is on the narrative. Maybe my harmonica is an affectation that does nothing but irritate another player character. Is that "implemented in the game"? Must it serve a plot purpose? If I am captured and my party finds my hidden prison in the warren of dungeon pits by following my harmonica music, does that suddenly implement my previous harmonica playing in the game? Should the DM require a Harmonica skill roll from me just to see if I can make the sound travel X number of feet so the party can hear it? If so, that was not my intent. I should have included more of your argument and broken down my response better. I was talking about your "detail budget" and how it will limit player concepts in certain games, not at all about games that use this modeling approach. [/QUOTE]

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