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Message: <blockquote data-quote="3catcircus" data-source="post: 2311079" data-attributes="member: 16077">Hmm - I love deep, convoluted plots both as a player and as a DM because they extend the length of a campaign.Unfortunately, I'm playing with a group that I used to DM for - the current DM and I seem to be the only ones who want a deep, well-thought-out, complex campaign.  The problem is when you have a group that is focused on a mindset of either hack-n-slash or who look at the game as a way to have tabletop battles (3.x has done more to hurt the roleplaying aspect of D&D than any other single change to the game because of the heavy emphasis on tabletop grid-based tactical combat.)When I was DMing, I had a lot of complex story arcs and plot hooks - the majority of the players looked at it as either boring (who cares, I just wanna kill stuff) or else they didn't want to put two-and-two together (hmm - we were ambushed - in Thay - and half our unit has been captured or killed; we've later pissed off both the local Thayan Enclave *and* the Telflamm Thieves' Guild;  we are chasing down slavers who kidnapped people that attended the same party as us and then we meet two guys that just happened to be on the road and have no reason for being where they are and who aren't local who accompany us into town and then disappear; our replacement commanding officer just *vanished* without a struggle, as if he stepped 'somewhere else' in mid-stride and potential eyewitnesses only reported that there was a green flash - and now we wonder *WHY* we were shanghaied and turned into galley slaves - by the *same* type of people as the strangers on the road;  when we finally manage to escape, we don't try to pursue the reason that our stuff which was confiscated when we were shanghaied has suddenly appeared in the rooms of an inn we picked at random; and we *then* wonder why we are ambushed in a big battle in a tavern designed to be extremely challenging for us?!?!?)  Granted - the two-and-two stuff *was* complex and convoluted, but they didn't even bother to really *try* to figure things out.  Hmm - those guys on the road aren't local, but where *are* they from?  Hmm - they have the same accent as the guys that shanghaied us?  Why was it so easy to escape and *who* knew what inn we would pick (let alone be powerful enough to return our stuff that the shanghaiers took)?  How come our new commanding officer vanished without a struggle and what would make a green flash in the process?  How come the ambush in a tavern was so challenging - is someone testing us to see if we are a threat to them or if they can use us as pawns?Afterwards, when I explained my story arcs to the current DM, he agreed that it was complex but solveable - and if the party would have exerted a little effort, they wouldn't have felt like they were being railroaded or that things didn't make sense.</blockquote>

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