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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Eosin the Red" data-source="post: 1393343" data-attributes="member: 168">That is pretty much how I would describe Hero System which I don't think of as rules heavy as d20. Kinda funny that one man's (or womans) rules light stomping grounds is another man's rules heavy stomping ground. Once you have the base to Champions it is all butter. I know allot of people complain about Champs for requiring math degrees, taking hours to make characters and hours to run battles but I just don't get the complaint. Stack the PHB and the splat books next to a guy who has played only GURPs and tell him to make a character that resembles Aragorn and it is going to take him hours....same in Champions. Math is simple....I had to take 4 semesters of college math before I got credit for any so I am basically Innumerite....in otherwords, I am math retarded and I get the math. If you are worse off then me -- well, they probably had to take you to the "special" classes so it can't be that hard.  Finally, battles...I run both d20 and Champions on a fairly regular basis and they take about the same amount of time for similar type battles.  Champions has simple mechanics that can be used cross-genre. They don't try to define everything, they make one rule for stunning type damage at range and one for killing...then the player can call it a fire ball, lightining bolt or death ray at their liesure but the player only needed to learn the "core mechanic." I don't need a champions book at the table to run the game so how do we define "rules heavy."  PS - I dislike loose systems like Tristat and Storyteller, so I guess that is kinda telling about me.  <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /></blockquote>

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